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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 8:18:26 GMT -6
...go ahead and get your sexist cards out... LOL! I'm amused when people play the meant-to-be dismissive Fill-in-the-Blank Card card. It's a lame shortcut to keep from doing any heavy lifting. I'll give you a C- for effort.
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Post by evilleman on Dec 8, 2020 9:42:41 GMT -6
...go ahead and get your sexist cards out... LOL! I'm amused when people play the meant-to-be dismissive Fill-in-the-Blank Card card. It's a lame shortcut to keep from doing any heavy lifting. I'll give you a C- for effort. It's just as lame as the people that play the card when someone disagrees with their idea.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 10:58:22 GMT -6
LOL! I'm amused when people play the meant-to-be dismissive Fill-in-the-Blank Card card. It's a lame shortcut to keep from doing any heavy lifting. I'll give you a C- for effort. It's just as lame as the people that play the card when someone disagrees with their idea. Maybe we should just stop being lazy and calling everything a card and just argue on the merits. The dismissive card is for lightweights. Lightweights add nothing to the conversation.
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Post by E-Villan on Dec 8, 2020 12:29:00 GMT -6
...go ahead and get your sexist cards out... LOL! I'm amused when people play the meant-to-be dismissive Fill-in-the-Blank Card card. It's a lame shortcut to keep from doing any heavy lifting. I'll give you a C- for effort. I am assuming there is some misunderstanding of my original comment. I was expecting someone to lay the "sexist card" on ME for stating that there are some rapport advantages of having the coach the same gender as the team. While I didn't get the sexist card, a comparison to Selma for stating I would like there to be some substance along with the splash is equally ridiculous. Regardless, this isn't a final, and no one needs to be condescendingly graded as if it was.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 12:36:38 GMT -6
LOL! I'm amused when people play the meant-to-be dismissive Fill-in-the-Blank Card card. It's a lame shortcut to keep from doing any heavy lifting. I'll give you a C- for effort. I am assuming there is some misunderstanding of my original comment. I was expecting someone to lay the "sexist card" on ME for stating that there are some rapport advantages of having the coach the same gender as the team. While I didn't get the sexist card, a comparison to Selma for stating I would like there to be some substance along with the splash is equally ridiculous. Regardless, this isn't a final, and no one needs to be condescendingly graded as if it was. I understood the context of your comment E-Vilian. I guess some missed it. And, yes, I agree - no reports cards are needed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 13:11:14 GMT -6
I've moved from 'Hey, there is some merit to a new approach to a failing program' to 'When do we discuss how to improve the UE men's program?'
I think we all agree that if Tyra Buss were promoted to head coach of the women's team, they'd automatically be a different team. Maybe not better because the people who recruited the team apparently don't have much of a clue. That isn't to disparage the women who play for UE; it's meant to ridicule people who are indifferent to the program and who keep people on staff whose record is not even worth laughing at.
Now, to say that a woman can or could make UE a better men's program ... I'd have to say there is a chance of that. There is also a real good chance that it wouldn't matter since we've had an Aces all-time star followed by an All-American star followed by a guy who helped build a national contender and so far, it's not making me giddy.
I don't want to throw Lickliter into the hot water basin and I don't know if he deserves any credit for much. He didn't win any games last year and he's got some nice slotted excuses for this year's team.
But back to Tyra Buss and the assertion that maybe UE would benefit if she were the head coach. Not much research went into that and we all should at least take the comment for what it's worth -- where does UE go after Lickliter?
Comments about 'sexism' simply deflect us into the anger zone again. UE needs to do something right, which is different from doing something, even if it's wrong. It's not like winning at basketball in the MVC is an arcane secret understood only by a select few.
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Post by 83Ace on Dec 8, 2020 13:41:20 GMT -6
Great thread, Purple Whiskers. I took the original post as a fun post maybe intended to get some reaction (which people always oblige), but also with a serious intention behind it. I haven't lived in Indiana for quite awhile and don't follow IU WBB. To be honest, before she came to the Aces I wouldn't have known Tyra Buss from Tyra Banks. But if it were the right person, I would totally be for hiring a female head coach. I would hire Becky Hammons or somebody like her in a flash. (Not that we could get Becky Hammons to come to Evansville.) As PW noted, there have been a very few women who have been assistants in men's NCAA programs. There is just one right now. Interesting article about Edniesha Curry at Maine. sports.yahoo.com/edniesha-curry-became-division-mens-basketballs-female-coach-135354134.htmlAnd Tamara Moore is head coach at a juco in Minnesota. www.startribune.com/how-tamara-moore-became-the-only-woman-coach-in-men-s-college-basketball/569647222/Both of these coaches played in the WNBA. Interestingly, the head coach at Maine, Richard Barron, previously coached the women's team there. I remember that Speedy Morris, who coached at LaSalle in the brief time they were in the MCC, had previosuly coached the women's team there as well. There may be others who have gone from women's coaching to men's. There are some differences having to do with size and athleticism - not a lot of alley-oop jams in the women's game. (Come to think of it, not a whole lot of those in UE games, either.) But if you can coach, you can coach. Geno hasn't left to coach a men's program, but why would he? He is on top of the world at UConn.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 14:01:12 GMT -6
Overall nice discussion between games. I'll let it go at that. Thanks to all who participated. Tomorrow we'll have another game to discuss, hopefully a win.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2020 14:17:49 GMT -6
Gotta say, Barron at Maine hasn't exactly re-invented their program.
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Post by evilleman on Dec 10, 2020 8:34:46 GMT -6
Gotta say, Barron at Maine hasn't exactly re-invented their program. Cuz he's a man silly. Only women do that.
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Post by evilleman on Dec 10, 2020 8:42:12 GMT -6
Great thread, Purple Whiskers. I took the original post as a fun post maybe intended to get some reaction (which people always oblige), but also with a serious intention behind it. I haven't lived in Indiana for quite awhile and don't follow IU WBB. To be honest, before she came to the Aces I wouldn't have known Tyra Buss from Tyra Banks. But if it were the right person, I would totally be for hiring a female head coach. I would hire Becky Hammons or somebody like her in a flash. (Not that we could get Becky Hammons to come to Evansville.) As PW noted, there have been a very few women who have been assistants in men's NCAA programs. There is just one right now. Interesting article about Edniesha Curry at Maine. sports.yahoo.com/edniesha-curry-became-division-mens-basketballs-female-coach-135354134.htmlAnd Tamara Moore is head coach at a juco in Minnesota. www.startribune.com/how-tamara-moore-became-the-only-woman-coach-in-men-s-college-basketball/569647222/Both of these coaches played in the WNBA. Interestingly, the head coach at Maine, Richard Barron, previously coached the women's team there. I remember that Speedy Morris, who coached at LaSalle in the brief time they were in the MCC, had previosuly coached the women's team there as well. There may be others who have gone from women's coaching to men's. There are some differences having to do with size and athleticism - not a lot of alley-oop jams in the women's game. (Come to think of it, not a whole lot of those in UE games, either.) But if you can coach, you can coach. Geno hasn't left to coach a men's program, but why would he? He is on top of the world at UConn. Disagree. Coaching is not all the same. Coaching professionals is different than coaching high schoolers and coaching men is different than coaching women.
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Post by 83Ace on Dec 10, 2020 10:41:54 GMT -6
Disagree. Coaching is not all the same. Coaching professionals is different than coaching high schoolers and coaching men is different than coaching women. Good discussion. I am not arguing that coaching at different levels is exactly the same. I am saying that if you are a good coach you can coach both women and men, and at different levels. A lot of great college and even NBA coaches began coaching high school. Greg Popovich coached Division III before the Spurs. Assessing talent, devising an approach and strategy appropriate for your setting, motivating players and getting them to buy into your vision, skill development, surrounding yourself with coaches with complementary skills and recruiting the best players you can who are good fits for your program translate to various levels. Good people skills certainly help. There is no doubt that some coaches are not flexible enough or would not be comfortable at various levels or with both men and women, but I still say that if you can coach, you can coach. Male coaches have gone from the NBA to WNBA and nobody bats an eye.
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Post by evilleman on Dec 10, 2020 11:25:33 GMT -6
Disagree. Coaching is not all the same. Coaching professionals is different than coaching high schoolers and coaching men is different than coaching women. Good discussion. I am not arguing that coaching at different levels is exactly the same. I am saying that if you are a good coach you can coach both women and men, and at different levels. A lot of great college and even NBA coaches began coaching high school. Greg Popovich coached Division III before the Spurs. Assessing talent, devising an approach and strategy appropriate for your setting, motivating players and getting them to buy into your vision, skill development, surrounding yourself with coaches with complementary skills and recruiting the best players you can who are good fits for your program translate to various levels. Good people skills certainly help. There is no doubt that some coaches are not flexible enough or would not be comfortable at various levels or with both men and women, but I still say that if you can coach, you can coach. Male coaches have gone from the NBA to WNBA and nobody bats an eye. Valid points. But as you use Pop for example... he coached D3 yes but didn't jump for D3 to the NBA. It was a part of his ascension. Then he could for Brown and Nelly and got the appropriate experience before taking over the Spurs. I think there are coaches (leaders) that could adapt and coach anything and be successful. Don't care if they are male, female, white, brown, straight, or whatever. Their ability to lead would transcend whatever they had to overcome. I think those type of individuals are few and far between. So I would agree I think there certainly coaches out there that would dominate at coaching checkers if they had to. I still don't agree that coaching is coaching. The relationships and interactions are completely different.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 12:02:08 GMT -6
Brad Stevens made the leap from Butler to Boston and they've been quite successful. Of course, pro teams are built differently than college teams and clearly different from high school or even academy teams. I think a lot of it comes down to whether the players are confident of their coaching leadership. They will do what they are told within reason at the upper levels. You could even have had Cunliffe play with his back to the rim and he'd do it for awhile but the consequences would be disruptive. Sure, a tough coach can say, "do it my way or hit the highway." You can get away with that once but eventually players are going to reject that and you will end up with a pretty bad program.
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Post by evilleman on Dec 10, 2020 13:23:30 GMT -6
Brad Stevens made the leap from Butler to Boston and they've been quite successful. Of course, pro teams are built differently than college teams and clearly different from high school or even academy teams. I think a lot of it comes down to whether the players are confident of their coaching leadership. They will do what they are told within reason at the upper levels. You could even have had Cunliffe play with his back to the rim and he'd do it for awhile but the consequences would be disruptive. Sure, a tough coach can say, "do it my way or hit the highway." You can get away with that once but eventually players are going to reject that and you will end up with a pretty bad program. Agree. Stevens is obviously very elite in what he does. Elite coaches can coach any sport at any level because they get people to buy into the program.
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