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Post by aceloverlarry on Feb 27, 2024 21:27:03 GMT -6
A) the AD at UE’s job is not to make a deal “beneficial to USI”, so good for Ziggy, but he’s already offered too much imho B) no UE v USI game should ever be held anywhere but the Ford Center - USI can go get their heads kicked in around the country if they don’t like it C) USI should be happy that they play in a crappy league that they can dominate if they get their stuff together. Their path to the NCAA tournament is much easier than UE’s even if their team isn’t as good So how many bids are this "crappy" league in the NCAA D1 tournament going to get? And how many bids do you think the MVC is going to get in the NCAA D1 tournament? I think you just proved my point about how some UE fans have a superior complex towards USI You’re right they’re both one bid leagues this year, but the MVC at least has the potential to be a multi bid league if their teams play well enough in the non conference. The OVC will never be a multi bid league again in their post Murray and Belmont era. Not all one big league are created equal, and there is a huge difference between a one bid league who’s one bid is going to be an 11 or 12 seed v a one bid league that’s getting a 16 seed, which is what the OVC is now.
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Post by ATP on Feb 27, 2024 21:58:40 GMT -6
You’re right they’re both one bid leagues this year, but the MVC at least has the potential to be a multi bid league if their teams play well enough in the non conference. The OVC will never be a multi bid league again in their post Murray and Belmont era. Not all one big league are created equal, and there is a huge difference between a one bid league who’s one bid is going to be an 11 or 12 seed v a one bid league that’s getting a 16 seed, which is what the OVC is now. This is still pushing the fence posts around to make the corral fit our point of view. The OVC isn't a good conference now and it may end up being no better next year or the year after. For the moment, it's perfect for USI as it transitions. They don't get to win anything anyhow for another few years. OVC, meanwhile, might compete nicely in some other sports -- yeah, yeah ... nobody cares ... but the athletics departments do. I don't honesty have a lot of confidence that any of the middies are going to survive this latest onslaught by the power brokers. If the MVC wants to build a schedule that lets them compete for a bid, they have to go holding out their hat -- and we know how that looked in the Brigham Young game.
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Post by harrison88 on Feb 27, 2024 21:59:28 GMT -6
atp I never said UE was arrogant nor did I imply that because this boards is pro-aces that makes them anti USI. I said I believe some UE fans and some in the UE Administration have a superior complex against USI. And I believe UE is treating USI like how Butler is treating UE.
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Post by E-Villan on Feb 27, 2024 22:24:25 GMT -6
That's not really a fair comparison. Butler and UE were each others oldest rivals, having shared conferences and playing nearly every year since the 1920's. UE chose Butler over IU for the first game at the Ford Center. When the MCC exploded, both schools looked to the MVC. UE got the welcome mat and Butler got the door slammed in their faces. Despite that, we kept them on the schedule every year. As soon as the tables turned, they dropped us like a hot potato.
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Post by austinace on Feb 27, 2024 22:50:32 GMT -6
NET Rankings: The MVC is 9th with an average NET of 137. The OVC is 28th with an average NET of 274.45. bracketologists.com/conferences/Evansville’s NET rating is 199 and USI’s rating is 324. USI is 5-21. UE is 14-14 (against D1 teams). A 2-1 offer is more than fair IMO. A game at USI is truly a home court advantage for USI. The Ford Center is an off-site location that can hold more people and the OVC has its conference tournament there. So it is not nearly the same home court advantage as a game at USI is. USI has a lot more to gain and UE is still giving USI a 2-1 offer. Take it and get the series started as the fans will be the winners.
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Post by aces44 on Feb 27, 2024 22:51:56 GMT -6
A) the AD at UE’s job is not to make a deal “beneficial to USI”, so good for Ziggy, but he’s already offered too much imho B) no UE v USI game should ever be held anywhere but the Ford Center - USI can go get their heads kicked in around the country if they don’t like it C) USI should be happy that they play in a crappy league that they can dominate if they get their stuff together. Their path to the NCAA tournament is much easier than UE’s even if their team isn’t as good So how many bids are this "crappy" league in the NCAA D1 tournament going to get? And how many bids do you think the MVC is going to get in the NCAA D1 tournament? I think you just proved my point about how some UE fans have a superior complex towards USI SO WHAT if you think UE has a superiority complex. (UE > USI) Deal with it
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Post by aces44 on Feb 27, 2024 22:53:50 GMT -6
NET Rankings: The MVC is 9th with an average NET of 137. The OVC is 28th with an average NET of 274.45. bracketologists.com/conferences/Evansville’s NET rating is 199 and USI’s rating is 324. USI is 5-21. UE is 14-14 (against D1 teams). A 2-1 offer is more than fair IMO. A game at USI is truly a home court advantage for USI. The Ford Center is an off-site location that can hold more people and the OVC has its conference tournament there. So it is not nearly the same home court advantage as a game at USI is. USI has a lot more to gain and UE is still giving USI a 2-1 offer. Take it and get the series started as the fans will be the winners. Why on earth would we ever take a road game at USI? Every road game we take is better than that.
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Post by ATP on Feb 27, 2024 23:22:02 GMT -6
atp I never said UE was arrogant nor did I imply that because this boards is pro-aces that makes them anti USI. I said I believe some UE fans and some in the UE Administration have a superior complex against USI. And I believe UE is treating USI like how Butler is treating UE. Well, you sort of really DID imply some of the things you are denying you implied. You would not be in this debate had you not brought it up. The fact that this is an Aces board is, by nature, likely to be hostile to comments that imply what you claim you don't imply. The hint here is that not many Aces fans see USI's program as being on an equal footing and it's fairly clear that a team in year 2 of transition would be less in a position to negotiate terms on a potential game. The comment about them (in another universe) joining the Valley was one that I made pretty much as an absurdity. I think you probably should have recognized that. UE very well could be snubbing the men's basketball team from USI. I suspect it's less of a snub than the USI people asking for a deal the UE people don't want to accept. But they are playing each other in other sports, including baseball which is -- by any standard -- a step up for the Screamers. Missouri Valley baseball is among the best in the country among schools not in the P2. I won't speak to other sports, or academics, or endowments, or heritage, or whether the cheerleaders have nicer smiles. It is your opinion that UE administration is looking down on USI. I have zero reason to believe that conversation ever occurred. I'd say if the Aces and Screams had played last year and this year, they would each have one win.
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Post by ad1770 on Feb 28, 2024 9:02:42 GMT -6
Back to topic before it derailed. If Mo. St. leaves, would you rather see us get one and stay at 12, or be proactive and pick up 3 to go to 14, and who would it be for you?
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Post by aces44 on Feb 28, 2024 9:37:34 GMT -6
Back to topic before it derailed. If Mo. St. leaves, would you rather see us get one and stay at 12, or be proactive and pick up 3 to go to 14, and who would it be for you? Not sure the economics work w more than 12 teams (and they prob only work w 12 bc of Arch Madness ticket sales..) Almost have to go to 16 and make the schedule work so that you can get 2 teams in each year 2 units/ 16 teams > 1 unit / 12 teams
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Post by aceloverlarry on Feb 28, 2024 10:13:29 GMT -6
Back to topic before it derailed. If Mo. St. leaves, would you rather see us get one and stay at 12, or be proactive and pick up 3 to go to 14, and who would it be for you? Not sure the economics work w more than 12 teams (and they prob only work w 12 bc of Arch Madness ticket sales..) Almost have to go to 16 and make the schedule work so that you can get 2 teams in each year 2 units/ 16 teams > 1 unit / 12 teams I’m not sure there’s any teams that we can add that will bump us up to a two bid league. I’d rather just add one and stay at 12. Or wait and see if anyone else leaves and bump back to 10. There’s rumors the MAC has interest in Illinois State, and there’s potential the A10 could look to us to poach a member. I’d be proactive in discussions in potential members but I would wait until the dust settles to finalize anything. I don’t think current members will be fond of 14 or 16 members unless we’re going to guarantee multiple bids, which seems hard in todays environment.
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Post by ATP on Feb 28, 2024 10:21:55 GMT -6
Back to topic before it derailed. If Mo. St. leaves, would you rather see us get one and stay at 12, or be proactive and pick up 3 to go to 14, and who would it be for you? You add 2 teams and find that the conference schedule will be adjusted by brain-addled thinkers who will decide which teams you only play once. As it stands, SIU and Belmont are this year's choices. And 14 or 16 is too much temptation for the aforementioned brain-addled to decide that the Valley needs to be "geographic divisions," which is just dumb. If I had my druthers, I'd cut it back to 10 and make Valpo and UIC go back to the Horizon. Of course, they could tell UE to go pound sand ... ... no matter. A conference schedule of 20 games is max and still allow for some appealing non-con options that you can get if you aren't a 5-win team. But IF you get a 12th team, it's probably being stolen from the OVC or Summit. The only Summit team that interests me is Oral Roberts. If you go to 14, you are looking at NKU, or Mo-KC or Neb-Omaha. If I could snatch a team, it would be Western Kentucky. I suppose SEMO is worth a look since they play a lot of Valley teams anyhow. I imagine the OVC would declare war if the MVC kept stealing its assets. (And why is it snowing today in Valpo? It was 67 degrees yesterday.)
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Post by aces44 on Feb 28, 2024 10:46:05 GMT -6
Not sure the economics work w more than 12 teams (and they prob only work w 12 bc of Arch Madness ticket sales..) Almost have to go to 16 and make the schedule work so that you can get 2 teams in each year 2 units/ 16 teams > 1 unit / 12 teams I’m not sure there’s any teams that we can add that will bump us up to a two bid league. I’d rather just add one and stay at 12. Or wait and see if anyone else leaves and bump back to 10. There’s rumors the MAC has interest in Illinois State, and there’s potential the A10 could look to us to poach a member. I’d be proactive in discussions in potential members but I would wait until the dust settles to finalize anything. I don’t think current members will be fond of 14 or 16 members unless we’re going to guarantee multiple bids, which seems hard in todays environment. Agreed. Much harder in the new Tourney Paradigm. It could work, if you could adjust the conf schedule to manipulate the NET for the top 2 teams (even then, not sure the NCAA wants that) Sure feels like the NCAA wants all P5 teams plus 1 team from all the other conferences in the Tournament.
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Post by stlscooter on Feb 28, 2024 14:01:23 GMT -6
I am thinking Oral Roberts, Wright State, or St Thomas. KC, Denver, & Omaha just don't have any attendance.
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Post by stlscooter on Feb 28, 2024 14:03:07 GMT -6
I am thinking Oral Roberts, Wright State, or St Thomas. KC, Denver, & Omaha just don't have any attendance. NKU averages 3200 / game!
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