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Post by aceslfer on Mar 10, 2020 21:12:15 GMT -6
AGREE 100% WITH COUTEAU'S LAST 2 POSTS, I'VE TRIED TO STATE SIMILAR OPINIONS, WINNING CURES ALL,
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Post by 83Ace on Mar 10, 2020 22:04:49 GMT -6
Not sure if the comment(s) were directed towards me or not. But, I'll respond.....'cause, at this moment, have nothing better to do. I have no concern or opinion, at this date in time, what conference the university associates itself with. If The ACES, should stay or go, it doesn't matter to me. Just want them to win, as much as the rest of you. My above comment....as well as what I had posted on both PAF & The Purple Code, prior, was about the original move from The MCC/MWC/Horizon to The VALLEY. I thought because..... Geographical proximity... Nebraska?...Iowa?....Kansas? Half dozen OVC schools helped fill Coach Walter's first complete season. (In the mid 9O's) Several established OVC members had become yearly scheduled rivals. Crews had continued scheduling OVC universities. Geez, the city sits on the banks of The Ohio, not Missouri River. Evansville (city & school) would have been crowning jewel of that conference. To me, The OVC was just the natural fit. go aces The OVC schools that we have historically played fairly often are Murray, Austin Peay, and Western Kentucky (no longer in the OVC.) On the other hand, the teams we have played the most are Indiana State, Southern Illinois, Butler, and Valpo. We also played SW Missouri and Illinois State back in D2 days. When we joined the Valley we did not join a group of unknown teams. And now that Loyola and Valpo are in the league, we are in a conference with mostly long-time rivals going back to the MCC, the ICC and D2 days. Besides being a better conference, I would argue that the MVC is a better fit for us both in terms of rivalries and academics. As a community Evansville has more in common with MVC cities than it does with Jacksonville, Alabama, Cookeville or Martin, Tennessee, or Morehead, Kentucky. I agree that we would be a leading school in the OVC and we would be in the middle of its geographic footprint. But I definitely don’t want to go there. The original MVC schools were Iowa State, Drake, Missouri, Kansas, Wash U (St Louis), and Nebraska. The footprint has moved east quite a bit over the years. But at least MVC is a better descriptive name than Big East.
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Post by 83Ace on Mar 10, 2020 22:12:13 GMT -6
Or Big Ten or Big 12!
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Post by aces1982 on Mar 11, 2020 0:11:07 GMT -6
Some of you need a history lesson in MCC. Some need a history lesson in the MVC. And some need a history lesson in UE.
So let me help you out.
The people that think the MCC was better then the MVC are just delusional. Not even mentioning the rich tradition the MVC has had dating back to the 40’s and 50’s. We will just talk about 1979 to 1995.
In that time frame, since that was when UE went D1 to the time they joined the MVC, the MCC had 2 S16 appearances and 5 other 1st round wins. They had a total of 15 bids and only 3 years of multi bids (2 bids in those 3 years). Meanwhile the MVC in that same timeframe had 25 bids or TEN MORE then the MCC. During the same span, they had EIGHT multi bid years including one year with 3 teams. They had one team make the CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. They had one team make the Elite Eight and one team make S16.
You tell me, which conference looks stronger based on those numbers?
Now let’s learn about the MCC during UE’s time in that conference.
When UE joined it was Butler(don’t think of today’s Butler this Butler was never in the top half of the MCC) Oklahoma City, Xavier(again, first several years don’t think of the old Xavier that we knew), Loyola(which was good but only for a few years with Alfredrick Hughes and Carl Goldstein), Oral Roberts(was the class of the MCC with Sam Potter and Mark Acres). Detroit joined the next year and was always at the bottom year after year. Although they beat UE in MCC tournament when they were led by Archie Tullies.
St Louis joined in 1982 again, not close to being the SLU of now. They were bottom feeders till around 1987. They never made the ncaa tournament in the MCC. They left in 1990.
UE and Xavier dominated this conference getting 12 of the 15 NCAA bids during that time. Let that sink in. 12 of 15 bids. The other 3 were Oral Roberts, Loyola and Dayton. It was a 2 team conference. I mentioned Dayton, again don’t think of Dayton today. They were better then the Butlers, SLU, Detroit’s etc and was always competitive but made 1 tournament during that time. LaSalle and Duquesne joined, neither stayed long and neither were ever any good during that time.
So to recap NCAA bids-15 (MCC) 25 (MVC) Multibids- 3(MCC) 8 (MVC) Success 2 S16(MCC) Championship game, Elite Eight and S16(MVC) And just a telling stat that I didn’t even know till now....of those 15 bids, 12 were by 2 schools in the MCC. Add in the rich history of MVC and you tell me...when you take off your purple glasses which conference was better during that time span?
Would you rather have 25 years of 1 NCAA bid or 25 years of multi NCAA bids along with NIT appearances? How do I know that would be the fact? History!!! MVC 25 years, 1 NCAA tournament. MCC(weaker conference, basically 2 team race year in and year out) 15 years, 4 NCAA and 2 NIT’s.
The people that are blaming the Presidents, the AD’s, the coaches...are probably the same people that blame refs when you lose. Refs don’t cause you to lose. 25 years of different Presidents, different AD’s, different coaches don’t cause you of not advancing to the NCAA tournament. Take off the purple glasses and realize those aren’t the problems. It’s the conference we are in. That has been the only constant in 25 years. We have tried new players, AD’s, Presidents and coaches. It’s now time to try a new conference.
History class is over!
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Post by Atlanta Ace on Mar 11, 2020 6:57:17 GMT -6
The people that are blaming the Presidents, the AD’s, the coaches...are probably the same people that blame refs when you lose. Refs don’t cause you to lose. 25 years of different Presidents, different AD’s, different coaches don’t cause you of not advancing to the NCAA tournament. Take off the purple glasses and realize those aren’t the problems. It’s the conference we are in. That has been the only constant in 25 years. We have tried new players, AD’s, Presidents and coaches. It’s now time to try a new conference. Thanks for the history lesson. Conference affiliation determines if you win or not? You serious? So the reason all of the other MVC teams are better than us is because of conference affiliation? The school president, AD's, or coaches have nothing to do it? I hope this is your last post here.
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Post by aces1982 on Mar 11, 2020 7:19:24 GMT -6
The people that are blaming the Presidents, the AD’s, the coaches...are probably the same people that blame refs when you lose. Refs don’t cause you to lose. 25 years of different Presidents, different AD’s, different coaches don’t cause you of not advancing to the NCAA tournament. Take off the purple glasses and realize those aren’t the problems. It’s the conference we are in. That has been the only constant in 25 years. We have tried new players, AD’s, Presidents and coaches. It’s now time to try a new conference. Thanks for the history lesson. Conference affiliation determines if you win or not? You serious? So the reason all of the other MVC teams are better than us is because of conference affiliation? The school president, AD's, or coaches have nothing to do it? I hope this is your last post here.
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Post by aces1982 on Mar 11, 2020 7:21:39 GMT -6
Thanks for the history lesson. Conference affiliation determines if you win or not? You serious? So the reason all of the other MVC teams are better than us is because of conference affiliation? The school president, AD's, or coaches have nothing to do it? I hope this is your last post here. Are you serious? YES it does. If we were in the ACC don’t you think our win total will be less then if we were in the MVC?? Did you really just ask that question?
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Post by deanwormer on Mar 11, 2020 7:23:03 GMT -6
Are you serious? YES it does. If we were in the ACC don’t you think our win total will be less then if we were in the MVC?? Did you really just ask that question? Look who's back. Weren't you banned on the old board?
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Post by aces1982 on Mar 11, 2020 7:32:25 GMT -6
The people that are blaming the Presidents, the AD’s, the coaches...are probably the same people that blame refs when you lose. Refs don’t cause you to lose. 25 years of different Presidents, different AD’s, different coaches don’t cause you of not advancing to the NCAA tournament. Take off the purple glasses and realize those aren’t the problems. It’s the conference we are in. That has been the only constant in 25 years. We have tried new players, AD’s, Presidents and coaches. It’s now time to try a new conference. Thanks for the history lesson. Conference affiliation determines if you win or not? You serious? So the reason all of the other MVC teams are better than us is because of conference affiliation? The school president, AD's, or coaches have nothing to do it? I hope this is your last post here. Other MVC schools are better because they have better players. They recruit better They have better campus life They have better resources They have less academic restraint They have winning culture That’s just a few reasons. The old MCC was set up with like university’s. They were all private, smaller university’s. There is nothing wrong to admit when you are in over your head. UE is in over their head in the MVC. Maybe not at the very beginning because they were coming off such great success in the MCC with NCAA bids and NIT bids and great crowd support. But over time the MVC has swallowed that up and all that has been lost. And it’s not coming back while in the MVC
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Post by aces1982 on Mar 11, 2020 7:32:58 GMT -6
Are you serious? YES it does. If we were in the ACC don’t you think our win total will be less then if we were in the MVC?? Did you really just ask that question? Look who's back. Weren't you banned on the old board? Nope. Never was. Must have me confused with someone else.
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Post by Tom Servo on Mar 11, 2020 7:50:28 GMT -6
Thanks for the history lesson. Conference affiliation determines if you win or not? You serious? So the reason all of the other MVC teams are better than us is because of conference affiliation? The school president, AD's, or coaches have nothing to do it? I hope this is your last post here. Other MVC schools are better because they have better players. They recruit better They have better campus life They have better resources They have less academic restraint They have winning culture That’s just a few reasons. The old MCC was set up with like university’s. They were all private, smaller university’s. There is nothing wrong to admit when you are in over your head. UE is in over their head in the MVC. Maybe not at the very beginning because they were coming off such great success in the MCC with NCAA bids and NIT bids and great crowd support. But over time the MVC has swallowed that up and all that has been lost. And it’s not coming back while in the MVC 82, I understand your points and I think up until a few years ago you are correct. But my question for you would be this...what about now that Creighton and WSU are gone? With them in play - yes, they were head and shoulders better than anything we were ever going to have. But now, to me, this thing is wide open because the current MVC is no where near the MVC even 5 years ago. The conference is really a shell of what it was in my opinion. Not looking to start a fight, just want your thoughts on that.
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Post by goacesgo on Mar 11, 2020 7:58:02 GMT -6
Look who's back. Weren't you banned on the old board? Nope. Never was. Must have me confused with someone else. I somewhat agree with aces1982, so let's say we are wrong why have we went through lets just call it 4 coaches, different administration and have pumped a lot of money into the practice facility and in other areas, but still we only have really one team in the last 20 years that almost made the NIT. What if that team of Mock and DJ were in the OVC, I think we would have made it to the NCAA maybe even with Colt Ryan. I know that's a big hypothetical. I don't know what we have done wrong, but Dayton, St. Louis, Xavier and Butler made the transition to better conferences and we set here 20 years later. I don't have the answers and I will remain a diehard Aces fan until death, but man I sure miss the 90's.
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Post by goacesgo on Mar 11, 2020 7:58:57 GMT -6
Other MVC schools are better because they have better players. They recruit better They have better campus life They have better resources They have less academic restraint They have winning culture That’s just a few reasons. The old MCC was set up with like university’s. They were all private, smaller university’s. There is nothing wrong to admit when you are in over your head. UE is in over their head in the MVC. Maybe not at the very beginning because they were coming off such great success in the MCC with NCAA bids and NIT bids and great crowd support. But over time the MVC has swallowed that up and all that has been lost. And it’s not coming back while in the MVC 82, I understand your points and I think up until a few years ago you are correct. But my question for you would be this...what about now that Creighton and WSU are gone? With them in play - yes, they were head and shoulders better than anything we were ever going to have. But now, to me, this thing is wide open because the current MVC is no where near the MVC even 5 years ago. The conference is really a shell of what it was in my opinion. Not looking to start a fight, just want your thoughts on that. I know you were asking 82, but Tom I do agree we should have a better chance with those power houses gone.
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Post by aces1982 on Mar 11, 2020 8:00:01 GMT -6
Other MVC schools are better because they have better players. They recruit better They have better campus life They have better resources They have less academic restraint They have winning culture That’s just a few reasons. The old MCC was set up with like university’s. They were all private, smaller university’s. There is nothing wrong to admit when you are in over your head. UE is in over their head in the MVC. Maybe not at the very beginning because they were coming off such great success in the MCC with NCAA bids and NIT bids and great crowd support. But over time the MVC has swallowed that up and all that has been lost. And it’s not coming back while in the MVC 82, I understand your points and I think up until a few years ago you are correct. But my question for you would be this...what about now that Creighton and WSU are gone? With them in play - yes, they were head and shoulders better than anything we were ever going to have. But now, to me, this thing is wide open because the current MVC is no where near the MVC even 5 years ago. The conference is really a shell of what it was in my opinion. Not looking to start a fight, just want your thoughts on that. Good point. They brought in Loyola and Valpo which are more “like” university’s to us. It’s still hard to compete year in and year out with the other schools IMO. But you are right, the MVC with the loss of Creighton and WSU is no where near what it use to be.
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Post by Atlanta Ace on Mar 11, 2020 8:00:48 GMT -6
Are you serious? YES it does. If we were in the ACC don’t you think our win total will be less then if we were in the MVC?? Did you really just ask that question? I did. If UE had an athletic budget equal to the other ACC members, I think we would be competitive. But, we don't. We do have a budget that is competitive in the Valley.
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