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Post by purplestrong on Mar 7, 2020 22:05:11 GMT -6
I know I risk being ostracized for just suggesting it, but just for the sake of discussion, where is the point we should consider a move to the OVC? Pros and cons? For whatever reason UE does not seem capable of recruiting and winning on a regular basis in this league. I’m not sure why. Sucky coaching, terrible recruiting, apathetic support from the administration, just what is the problem? I’d rather play in a league we might be more successful in and have a chance to go dancing. You have to admit, it’s been a very, very long time. I’m willing to give it a year, but am unsure if we are heading in the right direction and unsure what the root problem is. Now rip me a new one.....I’m a big boy, I won’t cry. Tell me how foolish I am, there are greater basketball minds than mine on this board. Just for the record I have been a avid fan for fifty years and a UE grad. Ready, set, go!
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Post by E-Villan on Mar 7, 2020 22:49:33 GMT -6
If it was just as easy as playing weaker teams and getting a better chance of making the NCAA, you might have a point, but it isn't.
First, schools are constantly trying to improve their conference affiliations, not lower them. I can't think of anyone, who hasn't just scrapped NCAA athletics altogether, who has taken such a drop.
We have one of the largest budgets in our league. We have some of the best facilities, practice and playing, along with one of the largest fanbases. We have everything in place to compete here. If we are not competing at this level, it is and it certainly has been, strictly the wrong people in the wrong places. We competed in the MCC, which was a better conference. Those teams would be very competitive in the current MVC. Valpo barely beat us in all three games this year, and they are playing in the championship tomorrow. Loyola went decades in a much weaker league getting kicked around, and are finally finding success in our league. Dropping down doesn't guarantee any more post season success and there is absolutely no one in the MVC that we shouldn't be able to compete with.
Now, take it a little farther. Currently, there is only one OVC school that we would have any interest in being in the same conference with...and I am certain should we ever decide to make such a move, they would be the ones taking our place in the MVC. So now we are stuck in a league, with a bunch of Southern football playing public schools and Belmont. I am sure our fans would just be busting down the gates for those Tennessee State and SIU-E games. Heck, our conference schedule would look like a Marty non-con schedule.
Lower league means lower level recruits. We complain about the area P5 programs beat us on recruits, making such a move would also knock us down a notch against other areas teams in the MVC, MAC and Conference USA.
Yes, we beat Murray this year, but we also got waxed by Jacksonville State. There are plenty of programs in these lower conferences that will probably never sniff an NCAA invite in our lifetimes. Without the proper leadership, we won't fare any better there.
Like I said, the Crews era teams would do very well in the MVC today, and frankly, most of the teams we have had in the last 20 years would have sucked just as bad in the OVC. It is strictly a leadership issue. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
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Post by aceshigh on Mar 8, 2020 0:14:52 GMT -6
Well said E-villan. A move to the OVC would be the worse possible decision. Our level of recruits would definitely diminish and we would be battling State schools with their variety of programs offered and recruiting base. Not only that, Murray St and Belmont would annually bust our chops. Just talking about this has already lowered my interest.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 8:41:46 GMT -6
The Valley overall is a very strong conference, includes football and a quite competitive baseball environment. UE should be profiting from that, not just filling up a spot in the rotation. Of the several conferences for basketball in the Midwest or "Great Lakes" area: MAC, Horizon, Summit, OVC, Valley -- I think they all match up pretty well overall, with weaker teams in any conference being what they are. Evansville should generally be using their conference as a recruiting tool. Wichita and Creighton managed that, and Butler used it to springboard out of the Horizon, as did Loyola and Valpo. You don't have to "win" in the Valley, but you can't be the designated carrion either. If UE isn't going to commit to some kind of success in the money sports, moving to another league won't do a thing for them. They would have a losing record against everybody in the conferences I've mentioned, including the Summit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 8:48:06 GMT -6
The Valley overall is a very strong conference, includes football and a quite competitive baseball environment. UE should be profiting from that, not just filling up a spot in the rotation. Of the several conferences for basketball in the Midwest or "Great Lakes" area: MAC, Horizon, Summit, OVC, Valley -- I think they all match up pretty well overall, with weaker teams in any conference being what they are. Evansville should generally be using their conference as a recruiting tool. Wichita and Creighton managed that, and Butler used it to springboard out of the Horizon, as did Loyola and Valpo. You don't have to "win" in the Valley, but you can't be the designated carrion either. If UE isn't going to commit to some kind of success in the money sports, moving to another league won't do a thing for them. They would have a losing record against everybody in the conferences I've mentioned, including the Summit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 9:38:23 GMT -6
The OVC championship game last night was tremendous. Especially since the right team won. Either team last night would handle todays MVC champion fairly easy. Both teams had 8-10 players choreographed to the same flow, and it played to the last ticks on the clock. UE would have a much better dynamic to build rivalries in the OVC, great fan base closer to travel. The down side? The OVC couldn't be played in the Ford Center.
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Post by E-Villan on Mar 8, 2020 10:15:57 GMT -6
The OVC championship game last night was tremendous. Especially since the right team won. Either team last night would handle todays MVC champion fairly easy. Both teams had 8-10 players choreographed to the same flow, and it played to the last ticks on the clock. UE would have a much better dynamic to build rivalries in the OVC, great fan base closer to travel. The down side? The OVC couldn't be played in the Ford Center. The OVC tournament looked much better than the MVC last night. Of course, it was their championship, and only the semi's for the MVC. There are no rivalries to build in the OVC, because Murray would be gone, and taking our old spot in the MVC. My guess is Belmont would be right behind them. We have 4 other peer universities in our conference. We have 100+ year old rivalries with Indiana State and SIU, and 25 years with the rest. We would have NONE of that in the OVC. Leaving the MVC for the OVC, Horizon or even the A-10 would not be a good move. The only realistic conference move that would ever make sense is if the MVC Privates, grabbed Belmont and a couple of others, and created a modern version of the MCC. Anything else would just kill the program.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 11:40:10 GMT -6
The OVC championship game last night was tremendous. Especially since the right team won. Either team last night would handle todays MVC champion fairly easy. Both teams had 8-10 players choreographed to the same flow, and it played to the last ticks on the clock. UE would have a much better dynamic to build rivalries in the OVC, great fan base closer to travel. The down side? The OVC couldn't be played in the Ford Center. The OVC tournament looked much better than the MVC last night. Of course, it was their championship, and only the semi's for the MVC. There are no rivalries to build in the OVC, because Murray would be gone, and taking our old spot in the MVC. My guess is Belmont would be right behind them. We have 4 other peer universities in our conference. We have 100+ year old rivalries with Indiana State and SIU, and 25 years with the rest. We would have NONE of that in the OVC. Leaving the MVC for the OVC, Horizon or even the A-10 would not be a good move. The only realistic conference move that would ever make sense is if the MVC Privates, grabbed Belmont and a couple of others, and created a modern version of the MCC. Anything else would just kill the program. Creating a conference would be to allow more people to have an office. If USI goes to D-1, you could coax them and maybe Bellarmine to hop into a version of the MCC, but it's not the sort of attraction that spells anything other than a sloppy Valley version of the SWAC. No TV contract values is the worst part of that fantasy. Nashville is a media center but Bellmont is not likely going to be the top story on the sports report. Moving chairs is just something clerks do. To that end, if UE wants to play in a quality conference, it's not a secret how that's done. Earlier on these threads, I wasn't a big 'get rid of Spencer' backer, but the more I see and understand, yeah ... it's time they uprooted the whole thing. Lickliter is toothless without that. Honestly, if they can't figure out how to improve the women's team, I'll drive down and make a few phone calls to some of the coaches around the SIAC.
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Post by aceslfer on Mar 8, 2020 12:04:08 GMT -6
The wrong move in 1995 was when Aces joined MVC. If you were around at that time, the concensus was we were leaping beyond our abilities to compete on the hardwood. That has proven true over the last 25 years. We will never, repeat NEVER be a contender On the hardwood floor. So accept that as fact. We are too small an UNIV, no student support, a town that does not attract talent, a 25 year record that does not entice orn inspire the better athletes, a school that cannot afford to pay for a tp coach, etcetcetc. A drop to a lower level conference for the consistent cellar dwellers would bode well. Winning teams attract WINNERS, that we are not
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Post by lawrencevgibson on Mar 8, 2020 12:16:59 GMT -6
You just don't go weaker to do better. That's the worst defeat of all. UE needs to up their game in all sports and not allow themselves to be a punching bag.Moving just isn't acceptable.
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Post by aces44 on Mar 8, 2020 12:36:57 GMT -6
I’m not going to give this question the respect of an answer.
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Post by stennisrm72 on Mar 8, 2020 12:56:39 GMT -6
I would only move to A-10 or Big East if making a move. Yes, there are no rivalries save perhaps SLU, Xavier, and Butler. Both conferences are better than the Valley.
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Post by 83Ace on Mar 8, 2020 14:16:28 GMT -6
The wrong move in 1995 was when Aces joined MVC. If you were around at that time, the concensus was we were leaping beyond our abilities to compete on the hardwood. That has proven true over the last 25 years. We will never, repeat NEVER be a contender On the hardwood floor. So accept that as fact. We are too small an UNIV, no student support, a town that does not attract talent, a 25 year record that does not entice orn inspire the better athletes, a school that cannot afford to pay for a tp coach, etcetcetc. A drop to a lower level conference for the consistent cellar dwellers would bode well. Winning teams attract WINNERS, that we are not This is complete revisionist history. When we joined the MVC, it was no stronger and arguably weaker than the MCC had been. I was a bit disappointed that we ended up in the MVC and would have preferred the A-10, although the MVC was a better geographic fit. Never mind a consensus, I don’t remember anybody saying the MVC was too tough a conference for us. I have to say that you are a better fan than me. I am hopeful about the future and think we have a lot of the right things in place in terms of facilities, fan support, support of the administration and more. Meanwhile you are somehow still a fan even though you know for a fact we will always be losers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 14:21:35 GMT -6
The wrong move in 1995 was when Aces joined MVC. If you were around at that time, the concensus was we were leaping beyond our abilities to compete on the hardwood. That has proven true over the last 25 years. We will never, repeat NEVER be a contender On the hardwood floor. So accept that as fact. We are too small an UNIV, no student support, a town that does not attract talent, a 25 year record that does not entice orn inspire the better athletes, a school that cannot afford to pay for a tp coach, etcetcetc. A drop to a lower level conference for the consistent cellar dwellers would bode well. Winning teams attract WINNERS, that we are not Good grief. you actually composed this?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 14:25:42 GMT -6
I certainly hope the Valley not only encourages its members to improve but is looking to expand. I'd be on board with either absorbing the OVC or plucking a couple of teams from the Horizon. Seriously, more teams is better and enhances the conference. UE is not recruiting for reasons that escape me, in a conference that's one of the most balanced and durable among the mid-majors. The A-10? Yeah, maybe ... but its footprint is too far east. I don't think the Big East would be interested in UE.
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