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Post by stennisrm72 on Jan 15, 2020 23:19:19 GMT -6
I said this in the McCarty Situation thread. The house has burned to the ground whether coach returns or not. The bandwagon fans won't come back for a while. Judging by purple rein's statements the student section will be gone. We might as well clear it down to the foundation and rebuild. The rest of the season will be dreadful on and off the court.
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Post by E-Villan on Jan 16, 2020 0:03:30 GMT -6
I said this in the McCarty Situation thread. The house has burned to the ground whether coach returns or not. The bandwagon fans won't come back for a while. Judging by purple rein's statements the student section will be gone. We might as well clear it down to the foundation and rebuild. The rest of the season will be dreadful on and off the court. To clarify, the purplerein40 who has been violating board policy, and posting of late, is not affiliated with the Purple Reign club, or the moderator we have from there.
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Post by acepurple84 on Jan 16, 2020 5:31:39 GMT -6
I'm with you Tom, it is real hard to have anything positive to say. A few points. Take out the UK game. We beat Ball State, who smashed Indiana State. We played a decent SMU team to a basket. We beat Miami fairly easily, who smashed Bradley. We beat Murray State, who pushed Missouri State into OT in Springfield. Now, a few other points. After last year, we lost just Marty Hill, but added Art, Sam and DeAndre. Even without DeAndre, Sam and Art should at least be a wash compared to Marty. Everyone else is back. Last year, we were at least competitive in many conference games. This year, only one so far. We all know what the one difference is from the non-con this year, and from last year. The players are simply lost with this. As I said before, I am not throwing all of this on Seltzer. He is a substitute teacher, who has no respect from the students. It is clear after tonight that they don't respect him, and he is unable to get any traction there. OK, I mean it this time....whoosh, another spitball just flew by. His frustration with the team is growing, as is their frustration with him. There is no way he can stay and this resolve itself. Either McCarty comes back, or we just need to blow the whole thing up and start from scratch.
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Post by municup14 on Jan 16, 2020 5:38:11 GMT -6
How can we win games when I turn on the game and I see all 4 of Marty's recruits on the floor at the same time.Are they better than Walter's recruits,or are they more coachable in Benny's system.Seems to me Benny hes altered our offense a little bit,more offense ran through the paint instead of 3 point line.
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Post by acepurple84 on Jan 16, 2020 6:31:23 GMT -6
This team is Demoralized. They lost the coach many cam e here to play for. Lately they have looked lost and without direction. Not sure it is fair, but it lies on the coaches to get their minds back into the games. Last night the coach should have taken up for Sam. He was being hammered. But Sam needs to realize now teams know they can get him rattled and he will pop off and draw the "T". He shouldn't have been pulled the rest o the game. I put much of the blame on the Head Coach. What ever Walter was suspended for he should have known better. The season can be turned around, but they need better direction. Bradley lost their first five conference games last year and turned it around and won the Tourney. We can do the same. This is a great bunch of kids we have. They are special and need our continued support.
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Post by indymoon on Jan 16, 2020 8:13:09 GMT -6
I'm trying to stay somewhat positive but guys it's pretty tough right now. I can't really recall a time that UE has performed this poorly for 3 games in a row like this. We are just lost - completely lost.
The positives I can say is I liked the effort of Newton. I thought Givance played hard but part of the problem is he is kicking the ball out to an open guy but there are no shooters to make the shots. There are some open opportunities but when you have a team full of people who cannot make shots I don't really know of any offense that is going to work. All year really our shooting has been poor. Without Williams we don't have a prayer. I did think Frederking played hard - but he just has to shoot better which at this point I don't think that's ever going to happen.
Now, I couldn't be more disappointed with Riley and Hall. I'm honestly just sick of it. There was a play in the 1st half where an ISU player knocked the ball from Riley and he just lazily want after it which the ISU player sprinted for it and almost was able to overtake him and steal it. That's basically sums up him in my mind. Hall missed two point blank layups and was abused by the ISU players. This one of the many reasons why Givance is really the only option at the point - Riley just can't do it and there really isn't anyone else.
I said earlier that I wasn't impressed with Seltzer. It's not all his fault by any means but he certainly isn't setting the world on fire with his coaching (and that's putting it nicely).
I'll be there cheering for them Saturday but, man, this is so disheartening. Good summary. Seltzer complained about effort in the post game but I saw effort last night. The offense and personnel choices by the coach simply don't put players into a position to score. FG last night: Aces were 17-56 ISU was 27-59 10 made FG is roughly the difference in game. Drive&dish doesn't work when the driver can't get to the rim due to lack of size (Givance) or athleticism (Riley who isn't going to get all those calls on the road in the MVC) and the shooters are poor (Riley, Givance, Newton). The offense needs more structure.
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Post by Tom Servo on Jan 16, 2020 8:31:05 GMT -6
I'm trying to stay somewhat positive but guys it's pretty tough right now. I can't really recall a time that UE has performed this poorly for 3 games in a row like this. We are just lost - completely lost.
The positives I can say is I liked the effort of Newton. I thought Givance played hard but part of the problem is he is kicking the ball out to an open guy but there are no shooters to make the shots. There are some open opportunities but when you have a team full of people who cannot make shots I don't really know of any offense that is going to work. All year really our shooting has been poor. Without Williams we don't have a prayer. I did think Frederking played hard - but he just has to shoot better which at this point I don't think that's ever going to happen.
Now, I couldn't be more disappointed with Riley and Hall. I'm honestly just sick of it. There was a play in the 1st half where an ISU player knocked the ball from Riley and he just lazily want after it which the ISU player sprinted for it and almost was able to overtake him and steal it. That's basically sums up him in my mind. Hall missed two point blank layups and was abused by the ISU players. This one of the many reasons why Givance is really the only option at the point - Riley just can't do it and there really isn't anyone else.
I said earlier that I wasn't impressed with Seltzer. It's not all his fault by any means but he certainly isn't setting the world on fire with his coaching (and that's putting it nicely).
I'll be there cheering for them Saturday but, man, this is so disheartening. Good summary. Seltzer complained about effort in the post game but I saw effort last night. The offense and personnel choices by the coach simply don't put players into a position to score. FG last night: Aces were 17-56 ISU was 27-59 10 made FG is roughly the difference in game. Drive&dish doesn't work when the driver can't get to the rim due to lack of size (Givance) or athleticism (Riley who isn't going to get all those calls on the road in the MVC) and the shooters are poor (Riley, Givance, Newton). The offense needs more structure. Well said - I agree completely.
I've always thought - if you can hold a team under 65 - that's a pretty decent defensive effort. I thought for the most part our effort was pretty solid.
However, on the offensive end I don't think I've ever seen a more unstructured mess of confusion. I really think some of our guys just need to quit taking threes because I really don't think they are capable of making anything from that range with any consistency. If you can only hit the shot 20% of the time - I think a midrange jump shot is a much better option - and if a D1 player can't hit half of their open mid range jump shots they shouldn't be on the team. 3 * .2 = .6 | 2 * .5 = 1 | 1 > .6 .
The mid range shot has been there but they've been conditioned not to take it because McCarty and staff don't like them. Which to me is just as dumb as Marty refusing to shoot threes. You take the shot that is there. I know some will disagree but that is my opinion on it.
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Post by stennisrm72 on Jan 16, 2020 8:52:49 GMT -6
20% shooting is lousy whether it's a 2 or 3. You won't win many games with that shooting percentage. Carrying your logic if we shoot just 34% from 3 then 3*.34 =1.02 and 1.02>1.00. Hitting 50% of all possible 2's is probably in the upper percentiles of shooting percentage. This is the logic of college basketball.
The old saying stands the test of time .... if you don't stick it in the hole, you don't win the game.
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Post by Tom Servo on Jan 16, 2020 8:57:43 GMT -6
20% shooting is lousy whether it's a 2 or 3. You won't win many games with that shooting percentage. Carrying your logic if we shoot just 34% from 3 then 3*.34 =1.02 and 1.02>1.00. Hitting 50% of all possible 2's is probably in the upper percentiles of shooting percentage. This is the logic of college basketball. The old saying stands the test of time .... if you don't stick it in the hole, you don't win the game. Agreed - that's why more teams have moved to shooting more threes - but the key to that is being able to make 34% of threes which I don't think this team is capable of doing. I think they are somewhere around 25% in MVC play. If you take Williams out of the picture - it's probably below 30% on the year I would imagine.
But you're right - if you can't put the ball in the basket - you aren't going to win.
And I feel I should be more clear - I'm definitely not saying we shouldn't take any threes. I believe the 3 pt shot can be a huge equalizer - Just look at Crews' teams. I'm just saying there are certain players who simply can't hit them and shouldn't be shooting them. Which has been my gripe for a long time - recruit more players who can shoot the ball!
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Post by indymoon on Jan 16, 2020 9:11:49 GMT -6
I can't count the number of times I've seen an Aces player drive & dish to an open teammate standing outside the 3 pt line. Then, my heart sinks because I know he can't consistently make the shot. So either a) the wrong personnel is in the game or b) the system doesn't fit the players. I think b) because it happens ALL THE TIME.
Either way it's up to the coach to recognize players's strengths/weaknesses and put them into a position to succeed. That's not happening.
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Post by stennisrm72 on Jan 16, 2020 9:46:53 GMT -6
20% shooting is lousy whether it's a 2 or 3. You won't win many games with that shooting percentage. Carrying your logic if we shoot just 34% from 3 then 3*.34 =1.02 and 1.02>1.00. Hitting 50% of all possible 2's is probably in the upper percentiles of shooting percentage. This is the logic of college basketball. The old saying stands the test of time .... if you don't stick it in the hole, you don't win the game. Agreed - that's why more teams have moved to shooting more threes - but the key to that is being able to make 34% of threes which I don't think this team is capable of doing. I think they are somewhere around 25% in MVC play. If you take Williams out of the picture - it's probably below 30% on the year I would imagine.
But you're right - if you can't put the ball in the basket - you aren't going to win.
And I feel I should be more clear - I'm definitely not saying we shouldn't take any threes. I believe the 3 pt shot can be a huge equalizer - Just look at Crews' teams. I'm just saying there are certain players who simply can't hit them and shouldn't be shooting them. Which has been my gripe for a long time - recruit more players who can shoot the ball!
We're on the same page. I've said it before, the motion offense would work pretty well if you don't handcuff four players and allow threes. Coach's pro offense needs modification for the college game. The shooters aren't near as good and it's not a one on one game.
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Post by castle69 on Jan 16, 2020 10:04:08 GMT -6
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Post by youngacesfan on Jan 16, 2020 10:34:00 GMT -6
Walters offense would work great if we had knockdown shooters. Getting open looks hasn't been an issue, especially when deandre is on the floor
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Post by acecard on Jan 16, 2020 10:50:35 GMT -6
I'm trying to stay somewhat positive but guys it's pretty tough right now. I can't really recall a time that UE has performed this poorly for 3 games in a row like this. We are just lost - completely lost.
The positives I can say is I liked the effort of Newton. I thought Givance played hard but part of the problem is he is kicking the ball out to an open guy but there are no shooters to make the shots. There are some open opportunities but when you have a team full of people who cannot make shots I don't really know of any offense that is going to work. All year really our shooting has been poor. Without Williams we don't have a prayer. I did think Frederking played hard - but he just has to shoot better which at this point I don't think that's ever going to happen.
Now, I couldn't be more disappointed with Riley and Hall. I'm honestly just sick of it. There was a play in the 1st half where an ISU player knocked the ball from Riley and he just lazily want after it which the ISU player sprinted for it and almost was able to overtake him and steal it. That's basically sums up him in my mind. Hall missed two point blank layups and was abused by the ISU players. This one of the many reasons why Givance is really the only option at the point - Riley just can't do it and there really isn't anyone else.
I said earlier that I wasn't impressed with Seltzer. It's not all his fault by any means but he certainly isn't setting the world on fire with his coaching (and that's putting it nicely).
I'll be there cheering for them Saturday but, man, this is so disheartening. Tom, you always seem to be able to hit the nail square on the head. I couldn't agree more. You know something is wrong when Newton leads the team in rebounds.
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Post by acecard on Jan 16, 2020 11:03:19 GMT -6
Agreed - that's why more teams have moved to shooting more threes - but the key to that is being able to make 34% of threes which I don't think this team is capable of doing. I think they are somewhere around 25% in MVC play. If you take Williams out of the picture - it's probably below 30% on the year I would imagine.
But you're right - if you can't put the ball in the basket - you aren't going to win.
And I feel I should be more clear - I'm definitely not saying we shouldn't take any threes. I believe the 3 pt shot can be a huge equalizer - Just look at Crews' teams. I'm just saying there are certain players who simply can't hit them and shouldn't be shooting them. Which has been my gripe for a long time - recruit more players who can shoot the ball!
We're on the same page. I've said it before, the motion offense would work pretty well if you don't handcuff four players and allow threes. Coach's pro offense needs modification for the college game. The shooters aren't near as good and it's not a one on one game. Marty's motion offense would have had the Aces in the top tier of the Valley most years. The only problem, well maybe not the only problem, was that he didn't have the players to run that offense. We have the same problem today, at least as far as the MVC is concerned.
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