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Post by aceloverlarry on Feb 5, 2024 16:09:06 GMT -6
There’s several lawsuits pending against the NCAA and various NCAA schools that have the potential to drastically change the structure of the sport over the next 12 months, so I figured it would be worth it’s own thread since this will likely be a reoccurring topic of discussion.
The first landmark case just came to a decision. The Dartmouth players attempted to unionize a few months ago and the school challenged that attempt because they’re not “employees”. Well the courts just ruled that they are in fact employees. This is surely going to have ripple effects across the sport and will likely lead to players being paid directly by schools and receiving benefits that a standard university employee would receive.
There’s also lawsuits pending that will challenge the multi time transfer rules and likely lead to its elimination. I would expect a decision on that by this summer.
I’m not sure where this all ends, but one thing is certain, College athletics is going to be a hell of a lot different in 2-3 years than it is now.
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Post by evilleintentions on Feb 5, 2024 19:49:02 GMT -6
Lots to digest here. What’s next? High school kids joining a union? 😅😂
Another thought. Dartmouth is horrible. 5-14 record I think? Want to be treated like an employee? Fine, your work performance sucks. Your asses are fired! This is all becoming so ridiculous and will turn so many people off that people will just stop paying attention. On a personal level, I’m almost to that point myself.
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Post by aceloverlarry on Feb 5, 2024 20:29:01 GMT -6
Honestly, I’m glad that they’re finally going to likely be considered employees and we can stop pretending it’s all about the educational benefits. I’d much rather have a transparent salary cap & contracts type situation than have it veiled as players making money off their “image” instead of the pay for play that it really is. Let’s just get contracts and pay for play out in the open and if players have additional marketing value beyond that, let them cash in on the Dr Pepper commercial too.
I’m not sure where this all ends up, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see it end in a similar situation as the European soccer transfer market. I’m not a huge soccer fan but I loosely understand the concept of it, and for those unfamiliar, basically if you’re playing really well, a more successful club with more money will buy your rights from your team and you’ll keep moving up until your production/value matches your league. The same goes for if you’re not cut out for you league, they’ll either buy you out of your contract and you’ll be free to move down, or they’ll hold onto your “rights” but put you in loan to a lower level club for you to get game reps. If they eliminate the penalty for more than one transfer, we’re basically going to have free agency and player movement like that every offseason.
Maybe it won’t be that extreme, but I would be surprised. Either way, the quicker we get away from a pay per play scheme veiled under NIL value and into actual contracts between schools and players, the better for the sport imo. It’ll kill amateurism, but honestly most schools have been violating the principles of amateurism in some fashion for the last 50 years at least. It’s just all been behind closed doors until the last year and a half.
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Post by 65pointgame on Feb 6, 2024 10:07:25 GMT -6
Count me out of college athletics after all this comes to fruition. Already involved in high school sports and I can put my full support there.
Will be interesting to see what programs colleges eliminate due to the expense of running their "revenue" sports and not having the money to pay for their "employees" in Track & Field, Lacrosse, Swimming, etc. |
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Post by aceloverlarry on Feb 6, 2024 10:38:59 GMT -6
With the unionizing and the state of things, it seems inevitable to me that this ends with the P6 having collective bargaining and salary caps like Pitino suggests.
It will be interesting to see where this all shakes out and where UE decides they belong in the new landscape of college sports. Obviously we don’t have the resources to be doing what Pitino suggests, but what kind of salary cap would MVC teams go for and will we decide we want to engage in that at all?
I’m not sure where this ends but it will obviously cause a major fissure between the P6 and most midmajor leagues. A return to the “college division” for teams that can’t afford to compete with the P6 wouldn’t be the worst thing for midmajor programs imo.
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Post by aceloverlarry on Feb 6, 2024 12:32:50 GMT -6
More good points from Pitino. Regardless of how you feel on all these issues, one thing most fans can probably agree upon at this point is that the NCAAs leadership is a complete joke. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see the P6 revenue generating sports break away from NCAA governance and form their own league with commissioners as Rick suggests.
At this point, the only thing the NCAA is useful for is organizing a championship system for the Olympic sports. They’ve already let big money & the P6 dictate how the championships are handled in the revenue sports, and they’ve completely failed at enforcing their compliance rules for the last 5-10 years.
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Post by aces44 on Feb 6, 2024 13:28:05 GMT -6
“Lost more than the cases of Law and Order!”
🤣🤣🤣🤣 The Godfather is the Best!
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Post by ATP on Feb 6, 2024 13:56:36 GMT -6
With the unionizing and the state of things, it seems inevitable to me that this ends with the P6 having collective bargaining and salary caps like Pitino suggests. It will be interesting to see where this all shakes out and where UE decides they belong in the new landscape of college sports. Obviously we don’t have the resources to be doing what Pitino suggests, but what kind of salary cap would MVC teams go for and will we decide we want to engage in that at all? I’m not sure where this ends but it will obviously cause a major fissure between the P6 and most midmajor leagues. A return to the “college division” for teams that can’t afford to compete with the P6 wouldn’t be the worst thing for midmajor programs imo. Being a "college division" team with a D-1 arena has always served Evansville quite well. |
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Post by evilleintentions on Feb 6, 2024 17:29:07 GMT -6
The problem we have today in our universities and society as a whole is adults with no backbone who let stupid college kids dictate the terms of service. These so called solutions are silly at best and will cause the demise of college basketball as we know it. If I’m going to watch paid players, it’s going to be players who are actually good like the NBA. The step below that is the G league. No one will watch this crap if this is what we end up with. Why would you? It would be 2 steps below the G league.
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Post by aceloverlarry on Feb 6, 2024 18:40:51 GMT -6
The problem we have today in our universities and society as a whole is adults with no backbone who let stupid college kids dictate the terms of service. These so called solutions are silly at best and will cause the demise of college basketball as we know it. If I’m going to watch paid players, it’s going to be players who are actually good like the NBA. The step below that is the G league. No one will watch this crap if this is what we end up with. Why would you? It would be 2 steps below the G league. I don’t think pay for play has stopped anyone from watching in the last two years, and I don’t think it will in the next 10-20 either. The college kids aren’t dictating the terms, the US legal system is, and it’s honestly amazing that the NCAA was able to keep the charade going without a legal challenge for as long as they did. I saw this tweet earlier and I think it’s a good metaphor for how fragile the whole NCAA system is and why these legal challenges continue to destroy them. Without the athletes, there is no product on the floor, and the product on the floor has morphed into a billion dollar industry that everyone but the student athletes took a cut of until two years ago. Getting a $100,000 education hasn’t ever been a fair return for the kids that are helping generate up to $200 million dollars over four years for some schools. Even at schools like UE where the money generated is significantly less, the money made by the revenue athletes still outweighs the benefits they receive from the school. Blame the college kids all you want, but the real people to blame are the TV networks that have turned it into such a big money sport. |
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Post by evilleintentions on Feb 6, 2024 19:20:50 GMT -6
We the people giveth, and we the people can take it away. The only reason why they have any power at all is because people have been willing to overpay for a subpar product. Just try it and see what happens. Will the public finally stand up to this nonsense? Like I said, we go the way of labor unions and salary caps in college athletics and I will be 1,000 percent done with all of it. Good luck with that.
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Post by aceloverlarry on Feb 6, 2024 19:47:58 GMT -6
We the people giveth, and we the people can take it away. The only reason why they have any power at all is because people have been willing to overpay for a subpar product. Just try it and see what happens. Will the public finally stand up to this nonsense? Like I said, we go the way of labor unions and salary caps in college athletics and I will be 1,000 percent done with all of it. Good luck with that. You can quit watching but you’re probly the minority unless they do something my that butchers the NCAA tournament as we know it. Player unions and salary caps might sound stupid at first, but right now college sports are basically baseball where the Yankees and dodgers build the best rosters because they have the most money. You’re not pulling the money out of the sport and you’re not taking it away from the players at this point. I’d rather see them do something to somewhat maintain competitive balance and the competitive balance is much better in every salary cap sport than it is in baseball. |
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Post by stanm on Feb 6, 2024 20:30:08 GMT -6
Now this opens up some deep food for thought. My favorite spectator sport is watching 5 athletes in their prime physical condition, 18-23 years old, play with constant motion. 5 distinct roles and they must be on the same page. One player not in sync with the other 4 and the team suffers. I became aware of Arad early. I grew up in Evansville. And then there's the David and Goliath thing. That said, it's always been about having a program that keeps an ear to the ground and is convincing when they all go out to high schools to choose up sides.
Then here comes the big money programs, big money TV contracts, and big money NCAA. (and something about higher learning institutes buying out tens of millions $ coaches contracts when the students are left holding hundreds of thousands of debt is another story). However you spin it, it's all going to come down to how the three $$ conglomerates, I mentioned, determines exactly how the sides will be chosen, but I got a feeling a small private David school, in the mid-west, isn't going to be a factor.
I'm ready to be done. And I certainly can't bring myself to watch grown-ass men get paid millions of $$ to play a game with a ball. Nor blather on and on about it. Maybe it's time to head south in the winter and try to get better at hitting a ball into a hole. I'll keep sending money, and Thanks UE, it had its moments.
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Post by evilleintentions on Feb 6, 2024 20:35:49 GMT -6
Fair enough
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Post by aceshigh on Feb 6, 2024 23:12:35 GMT -6
I have one question about all this. How many colleges elsewhere in the world have sports programs that field teams to play for public consumption? There are a lot of athletes but I’m not aware of any that play for their school.
Pitino talks about P-5 and P-6 conferences and schools but what about all the others? How many are willing to gamble their endowment funds for a sport that does not make a profit? How many schools will eliminate sports from their schools that can’t turn a profit? How many women’s sports will be eliminated? How many will eliminate sports all together?
I don’t see this working out for anyone other than the truly elite athlete. Professional leagues will pop up to attract the best players while the others will be delegated to club programs or none at all.
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