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Post by E-Villan on Nov 8, 2023 9:03:40 GMT -6
This may not be the best place for this thread, but since it involves a few sports, it really doesn't have a specific spot. If you guys want it moved to Off-Topic, I will. As you probably know, the Lady Aces got drilled last night at home by Lipscomb. Not a good start for a 3rd year coach. I am not giving up on RSW at all..she has been successful everywhere she has been, and certainly seems to have the personality and drive needed to get it done. For whatever reason, she is once again dealing with a near total rebuild. Doesn't look too promising for year 3 to show any improvement over the previous 2. You should also be aware that the volleyball team just came off a rather disappointing season as well. The common denominator seems to be Meeks. Let's face it, it is not a MVC level facility for our ladies. I haven't attended a volleyball game there, but I have seen comments about balls hitting the ceiling and such. I have been to a couple of ladies basketball games, and it doesn't have a collegiate feel to it. It has to impact recruiting. If we are trying to attract MVC level talent and they can play in Redbird, Hammons and even gasp, Hulman versus Meeks, it puts us at a disadvantage. We say the same thing on the men's side about Valpo and the ARC is even superior on the ladies side. I came across this piece. It seems the YMCA is looking for proposals and offers for the historic Central Gym downtown. The gym that seats 6,800 people. I am not advocating moving the men from the Ford, although you could play a nice retro game there every year. With that, IMO a renovated arena like this could be a real gem for our women sports. I remember attending a few ISUE games there and the atmosphere was pretty good. Certainly would put us on a more level playing field with our conference peers. www.vchshistory.org/2019/11/04/old-central-gym-whats-next/
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Post by aces44 on Nov 8, 2023 9:54:59 GMT -6
I like the idea, but sadly the price of updating and remodeling it (I don’t know for sure) is most likely greater than building new.
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Meeks
Nov 8, 2023 10:07:52 GMT -6
Post by ATP on Nov 8, 2023 10:07:52 GMT -6
Retrofit is great after it's been done. The problems are manifold because while the building often looks like all it needs is a paint job, the truth is, the plumbing, heating, access, lockers -- all that costs probably as much as it would cost to raise the ceiling at Meeks and add a balcony. If you can get some grant money, maybe ... but that comes with people wanting to see the books. Other than that, another move to take the sports off campus is removing more students from the events.
As for Meeks, it makes financial sense to use what you have on campus, but recruiting -- for sure, the top players aren't going to be excited about that place. If they want to play sports while they get their degree, it might not matter. RSW shows she can recruit but I don't know if the players she has are always a nice fit.
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Meeks
Nov 8, 2023 10:20:11 GMT -6
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Post by aceloverlarry on Nov 8, 2023 10:20:11 GMT -6
It’s not an MVC level facility, but we need to fix our revenue generating sport (MBB) before we look into massive capital improvement projects for the non revenue ones. Sadly, there’s no good solution here. Renovating the downtown Y to get it to an MVC quality facility would be just as large of an investment as building new or renovating Meeks itself. I think there are really just no good solutions to this problem. The only way it’s fixed is by building an on campus arena for Men’s & Women’s to use and we’ve all gone back and forth on this plenty of times, and for the most part, agreed that the money would be much better invested into the program elsewhere if the money was available. Best case scenario is getting enough revenue generated to make it make sense to move WBB back to games at the Ford Center. Sadly, not much we can do for Volleyball imo, but I don’t think the size of it is horrible for a volleyball arena.
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Post by aces44 on Nov 8, 2023 10:42:42 GMT -6
This all goes back to the fool who thought Hockey > Basketball…
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Meeks
Nov 8, 2023 11:26:30 GMT -6
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Post by lawrencevgibson on Nov 8, 2023 11:26:30 GMT -6
This may not be the best place for this thread, but since it involves a few sports, it really doesn't have a specific spot. If you guys want it moved to Off-Topic, I will. As you probably know, the Lady Aces got drilled last night at home by Lipscomb. Not a good start for a 3rd year coach. I am not giving up on RSW at all..she has been successful everywhere she has been, and certainly seems to have the personality and drive needed to get it done. For whatever reason, she is once again dealing with a near total rebuild. Doesn't look too promising for year 3 to show any improvement over the previous 2. You should also be aware that the volleyball team just came off a rather disappointing season as well. The common denominator seems to be Meeks. Let's face it, it is not a MVC level facility for our ladies. I haven't attended a volleyball game there, but I have seen comments about balls hitting the ceiling and such. I have been to a couple of ladies basketball games, and it doesn't have a collegiate feel to it. It has to impact recruiting. If we are trying to attract MVC level talent and they can play in Redbird, Hammons and even gasp, Hulman versus Meeks, it puts us at a disadvantage. We say the same thing on the men's side about Valpo and the ARC is even superior on the ladies side. I came across this piece. It seems the YMCA is looking for proposals and offers for the historic Central Gym downtown. The gym that seats 6,800 people. I am not advocating moving the men from the Ford, although you could play a nice retro game there every year. With that, IMO a renovated arena like this could be a real gem for our women sports. I remember attending a few ISUE games there and the atmosphere was pretty good. Certainly would put us on a more level playing field with our conference peers. www.vchshistory.org/2019/11/04/old-central-gym-whats-next/ The old Central gym was a snake pit for high school games. It was hot and loud. I would love to go to games there.
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Post by 65pointgame on Nov 8, 2023 11:48:52 GMT -6
It’s not an MVC level facility, but we need to fix our revenue generating sport (MBB) before we look into massive capital improvement projects for the non revenue ones. Sadly, there’s no good solution here. Renovating the downtown Y to get it to an MVC quality facility would be just as large of an investment as building new or renovating Meeks itself. I think there are really just no good solutions to this problem. The only way it’s fixed is by building an on campus arena for Men’s & Women’s to use and we’ve all gone back and forth on this plenty of times, and for the most part, agreed that the money would be much better invested into the program elsewhere if the money was available. Best case scenario is getting enough revenue generated to make it make sense to move WBB back to games at the Ford Center. Sadly, not much we can do for Volleyball imo, but I don’t think the size of it is horrible for a volleyball arena.
Surprisingly, soccer is the largest revenue (counting tuition income) producing sport for UE.
Your points about the obstacles to the facilities situation are valid and at this time, the only thing that would solve everything is to have a donor give a large sum of money specifically to build something on campus for the women. Wish upon a star for that to happen.
As someone that attends a lot of sporting events at Meeks --- I understand the frustration, but it is all beyond my control. As one person mentioned, maybe there is a way to retrofit Meeks/Carson to give it more of an arena feel.
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Post by ATP on Nov 8, 2023 12:22:55 GMT -6
The best way to upgrade the roster for women's sports, which is partly what this is about, is to encourage some NIL money for better athletes. Effectively, you are buying a chance to finish 4th in the Valley, but NIL is a reality now and women who have previously been considered the "necessary" part of campus sports have seen how it works now. They put 20K in the stadium for the NCAAs and that's not backing down.
What this has to do with Meeks is incidental. You get teams that make the NCAAs, and you get more fans. You get more fans and you find that moving games to bigger arenas is a good idea. Then you start getting 3,000 for a women's game. Then you get more NIL money and better players. There are women sitting the bench at IU who won't play 20 quality minutes in their college career. They'd rather sit the bench at IU. Offer them $500 to do an ad for Old National Bank. "Hi, I'm Angela and when I came to Evansville, I was looking for a bank. ONB was just the place for me!"
But you ain't gonna get out of Meeks without a pass key.
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Meeks
Nov 8, 2023 13:37:09 GMT -6
Post by Incognito on Nov 8, 2023 13:37:09 GMT -6
In the Year 2023 as in all prior years, Men's basketball is all that really matters to the locals. Ziggy would love to elevate all UE sports but it will be the resurrection of men's b-ball that he hangs his hat on. Anything else is gravy. If you really want to see the women leave the Meeks, do your part to sell out the season and create a demand for a larger facility. Philosophizing won't work. Buy ticket. Attend game. Repeat as needed.
Announced attendance was 592, 200 more than last year's average which was 1000 below the average attendance of their opponents. If a big arena is the key to future success, maybe you can explain why the Ford Center did nothing for the team other than raise operating expenses. Season tickets to the Lady Aces are $25. That's couch money. Vote with your wallet, couch or piggybank. It's the only proven solution.
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Meeks
Nov 8, 2023 14:39:11 GMT -6
Post by 6thman on Nov 8, 2023 14:39:11 GMT -6
Has the Y done anything to bring it into the 21st century? Surely ADA compliance had to be installed. It could be a great home for the Ladies Aces, If the price is a value and the building up to code the MVC shouldn't be the deciding factor. The league wants to save historic venues and this surely qualifies. Does anyone know how much retro fit it'll need?
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Meeks
Nov 8, 2023 15:10:39 GMT -6
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Post by aceloverlarry on Nov 8, 2023 15:10:39 GMT -6
Has the Y done anything to bring it into the 21st century? Surely ADA compliance had to be installed. It could be a great home for the Ladies Aces, If the price is a value and the building up to code the MVC shouldn't be the deciding factor. The league wants to save historic venues and this surely qualifies. Does anyone know how much retro fit it'll need? Not sure, but they abandoned the old facility and built a multimillion dollar facility next door for a reason. I’m guessing it’s definitely a 7 figure cost to get it up to modern standards. Not sure how much renting the ford costs per game, but I would think they could cover rent for the next 20 years with the costs it would take to acquire the building and fix it up. Just my uneducated opinion, but I don’t see a scenario where it makes financial sense.
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Meeks
Nov 8, 2023 15:11:27 GMT -6
Post by Incognito on Nov 8, 2023 15:11:27 GMT -6
This all goes back to the fool who thought Hockey > Basketball… The Thunderbolts sold 81,000 tickets last year and the Aces sold 59,000. So...
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Meeks
Nov 8, 2023 17:09:53 GMT -6
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Post by aces44 on Nov 8, 2023 17:09:53 GMT -6
This all goes back to the fool who thought Hockey > Basketball… The Thunderbolts sold 81,000 tickets last year and the Aces sold 59,000. So... Come back to me in 2 years
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Post by ad1770 on Nov 8, 2023 18:00:09 GMT -6
This all goes back to the fool who thought Hockey > Basketball… The Thunderbolts sold 81,000 tickets last year and the Aces sold 59,000. So... The Thunderbolts did it in 28 games compared to the Aces doing it in 15 games (13 if you remove the exhibitions).
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Meeks
Nov 8, 2023 20:28:08 GMT -6
Post by Incognito on Nov 8, 2023 20:28:08 GMT -6
The Thunderbolts sold 81,000 tickets last year and the Aces sold 59,000. So... The Thunderbolts did it in 28 games compared to the Aces doing it in 15 games (13 if you remove the exhibitions). True. They average 3000 to the Aces 4500. But the Ford Center coffers only care about total revenue, year over year. At this point, hockey brings in more dollars and brings people to the downtown restaurants and bars more days out of the year. That may change and I hope it does. The Thunderbirds may be a fad that finally passes. From a city financial perspective, we should want hockey to remain and do well. It needn't be a competition. Besides, the hockey fans I saw at the Ford didn't look like they'd enjoy themselves at a basketball game. This is a tale of two sets of people who mix like oil and water. More is better to the entertainment and hospitality industry. It's okay to root for both.
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