When EC was an OVC | Purple Ace Place

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When EC was an OVC Dec 27, 2021 15:01:25 GMT -6 gaace likes this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2021 15:01:25 GMT -6

This is from January 1951, the box score from an Evansville 67-63 win over Eastern Kentucky, then called the Maroons.
Evansville was in the Ohio Valley Conference then and was apparently a contender instead of a bum.
My interest in this is curious on other levels -- since brothers Jim and Bob Barnett were on the EC team and W. Barnett was on the Deuces.

I had always just thought of the Deuces as a 1960s thing but evidently the concept is much older than that. The game against the Boonville Legion must have been a thriller. Later on, the Deuces had a game with Fort Knox. Um ... bring any souvenirs, fellas?
This one was played in a bad snowstorm at the Armory.

To this point in the season, the story says the Aces were 10-1, their only loss coming at Murray. Harry Axford is the top scorer in this one.

This team finished the regular season at 18-4 with all 4 losses to conference opponents, They were top-seeded going into the post-season OVC tournament at Louisville, however but fizzled and lost to Eastern in the semifinals after beating Morehead. Not sure how they evaluated that seeding. Murray won it. Garrett Beshear was a Racer of merit. Western beat EC in the conso game.

And I bet you think that was all there was, right?

Not so fast.

The Purples were still bound for the post-season and ended up in the NAIA tournament.
This stuff is hurting my head now. The NAIA wasn't for losers but it wasn't for winners either. Evansville was considered a rising star in Midwestern basketball, so an invitation was issued and accepted.

85-74 over Westminster PA, and 75-62 over Morningside. Then Regis. Lost 70-68. Games in Kansas City, 12th Street and Vine. Kansas City baby, optional bottle of Paisano wine.

As for Murray, um ... the conference tournament carried no real weight, although Murrayans were justifiably proud. Not much happens in Murray that isn't round and bounces. They expected to get an NIT bid -- to the Big Apple. They waited. They are still waiting.

The Agogans
As an aside, I dug up a story on the Evansville Agogans, a loosely defined pro team that was folded into the league around the time the EC season ended. The Agogans replaced a failed Denver team in the National basketball league. Several of their players were from the Evansville area and at least a couple of former Aces were on that roster. I haven't followed the Agogans enough yet to see where they take us. Bob Barnett is in the photo.

Another bit of trivia

Loogootee High won the sectional tournament over Washington Catholic and the top player for the Lions with 31 points was

Jack Butcher

That year, Evansville Reitz lost 60-58 on a last-second shot by Muncie's Charles Mock in the final game of the state tournament. Reitz had beaten Crispus Attucks earlier in the day.

Meanwhile

There were also indictments and convictions in the college game fixing scandal that affected several eastern programs. That scandal is not incidental. A grand post-season tournament for Bradley University had high hopes but it never amounted to much. WKU, not Murray, went to that. Murray was holding out. Holding out.

Kentucky won the other tournament, which was probably less important at the time than the NIT.

Which Murray didn't get invited to play.

Also

The Cuba Cubs, not quite ready for prime time.

Last Edit: Dec 27, 2021 15:02:52 GMT -6 by Deleted

E-Villan
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When EC was an OVC Dec 27, 2021 23:25:09 GMT -6 gaace likes this

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Post by E-Villan on Dec 27, 2021 23:25:09 GMT -6

Yes, Evansville was a founding member of the OVC in 1948, along with Murray, Western KY, Eastern KY, Morehead and Louisville. From what I understand, UE or EC at the time, dropped out of the OVC and actually went NAIA for a brief time before going back to the NCAA in the College Division.

I really need to dig into that more. Like ATP said, the Aces appeared to be successful in the OVC. Was it the other sports, particularly football, that necessitated the move down? Was the OVC always considered a D-1 conference? If so, that means Murray spent well into the 70's in a higher classification than most of the current MVC schools, the ones who seem to struggle with letting Murray into the party.

I guess the lesson here is anyone who thinks all this shuffling around is something new, hasn't been paying attention to history.

Spanning the Ohio River Bottoms to bring you the human drama of athletic competition

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When EC was an OVC Dec 28, 2021 10:51:24 GMT -6 gaace likes this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2021 10:51:24 GMT -6

Dec 27, 2021 23:25:09 GMT -6 E-Villan said:

Yes, Evansville was a founding member of the OVC in 1948, along with Murray, Western KY, Eastern KY, Morehead and Louisville. From what I understand, UE or EC at the time, dropped out of the OVC and actually went NAIA for a brief time before going back to the NCAA in the College Division.

I really need to dig into that more. Like ATP said, the Aces appeared to be successful in the OVC. Was it the other sports, particularly football, that necessitated the move down? Was the OVC always considered a D-1 conference? If so, that means Murray spent well into the 70's in a higher classification than most of the current MVC schools, the ones who seem to struggle with letting Murray into the party.

I guess the lesson here is anyone who thinks all this shuffling around is something new, hasn't been paying attention to history.

AS it seems, the "College Division" is more than not the actual product of the city of Evansville. The first truly national College Division tournaments were held in Roberts Stadium. So as far as any "D-1" designation, it seemed like the whole of the thing was fairly fluid. We know that in the late 40s and middle 50s, teams like Holy Cross, New York University, Canisius, other schools in Philly or Boston -- all were considered top programs. The original ECAC tournament, held at Christmas in the late 50s, was THE tournament of the year. The NCAA was only beginning to gain a foothold.
But I think Evansville's football teams in the late 40s were relatively competitive against other regional colleges -- and of course, they hosted the Refrigerator Bowl football game.
I don't much about how/when/why the NAIA became less relevant or why it chose to focus on smaller schools -- or why a school chooses to be a member of it.
The beginnings of NCAA basketball appear to be located in some places where you'd not necessarily go looking, although the Indiana University team being an early contender would be less surprising. I don't know a lot about recruiting in those days. The very good players were still very good in college. Many of them played football and basketball, even in the Big 10. Those players were also the anchors for the first good pro leagues. Mostly, being tall mattered. Of course, the college game was still only for white players. Bill Garrett integrated IU in 1948.

Last Edit: Dec 28, 2021 10:54:01 GMT -6 by Deleted

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When EC was an OVC Dec 28, 2021 11:57:55 GMT -6 gaace likes this

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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2021 11:57:55 GMT -6

EC was a member of both the OVC and ICC in 1950-51, which was apparently the first year the ICC existed. Evansville played an OVC schedule in 1951-52 and dropped out after that. Dan Scism said the ICC was where "the brain is a little bigger and the muscle a little smaller." They had joined the OVC in 1948.

OK, in summary -- found one answer. The NCAA voted in January 1957 to split into College and University Divisions, which makes the Roberts Stadium plan even more amazing for its foresight. The idea was that smaller schools with less emphasis on football could spend more resources promoting basketball. Other sports, and certainly women's athletics, were not generally considered for this decision. Track and field -- go where you will with that.

The NAIA, which represented smaller schools, many of them church colleges, was upset that the NCAA essentially carved half its membership off and sent it into the smaller classification. That was expressed by Al Duer, of Pepperdine, who said, "it's difficult for us to understand why after 15 years, the NCAA has suddenly become interested in small colleges." Duer went on to say that the NCAA should be committed to keeping small college programs, especially football, alive rather than setting up a "duplicating" program.

At the time, the NCAA was beginning to see that the basketball tournament had legs, and as television advertising and viewership improved, so did the football bowl games. The smaller schools, being left out, cried for help. The NCAA kicked the NAIA to the curb and all went forward at the Stadium.

The Evansville windfall was obvious after that. The restrictions were that there was a limit on scholarships and that a school couldn't just hop back and forth depending on whether its situation was better. So I assume the OVC overall chose to be "University" division, most likely influenced by potential games against UK and Tenneseee.

By 1957, when Roberts was conceived and built, EC was given the College Division national tournament due to location, reputation and McCutchan's credibility. All of this really builds onto the city's role in the history of the sport.

Last Edit: Dec 28, 2021 12:00:04 GMT -6 by Deleted

83Ace
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When EC was an OVC Dec 31, 2021 16:51:27 GMT -6 via mobile

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Post by 83Ace on Dec 31, 2021 16:51:27 GMT -6

When I was a kid - 60’s and early 70’s - we were in the ICC and in the college division. My recollection is that conference mates Butler and ISU were in the university division and that most everybody else - DePauw, St . Joe, Valpo, Indiana Central etc were in the college division. Is that correct? That couldn’t happen today.

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When EC was an OVC Dec 31, 2021 18:40:17 GMT -6

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Post by austinace on Dec 31, 2021 18:40:17 GMT -6

Dec 31, 2021 16:51:27 GMT -6 83Ace said:

When I was a kid - 60’s and early 70’s - we were in the ICC and in the college division. My recollection is that conference mates Butler and ISU were in the university division and that most everybody else - DePauw, St . Joe, Valpo, Indiana Central etc were in the college division. Is that correct? That couldn’t happen today.

I cannot answer that as that is a little bit before my time. However, for those of us that are a little fuzzy on what the "college division" is and what the "university division" is, Wikipedia sheds a little light on it under their NCAA Division I link:

"NCAA Division I (D-I) is the highest level of intercollegiate athletics sanctioned by the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) in the United States, which accepts players globally. ...

This level was once called the University Division of the NCAA, in contrast to the lower-level College Division; these terms were replaced with numeric divisions in 1973. The University Division was renamed Division I, while the College Division was split in two; the College Division members that offered scholarships or wanted to compete against those who did became Division II, while those who did not want to offer scholarships became Division III.[1]..."

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When EC was an OVC Dec 31, 2021 20:33:47 GMT -6

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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2021 20:33:47 GMT -6

Dec 31, 2021 16:51:27 GMT -6 83Ace said:

When I was a kid - 60’s and early 70’s - we were in the ICC and in the college division. My recollection is that conference mates Butler and ISU were in the university division and that most everybody else - DePauw, St . Joe, Valpo, Indiana Central etc were in the college division. Is that correct? That couldn’t happen today.

Indiana State competed for the College Division title in 1970, moved up in 1971. Joined the Valley in Bird's first year 1976.

Butler never has identified as anything but the top level. Prior to them building the fieldhouse, it likely didn't matter. After that, the top teams would come in anyhow for games.

The only difference was in the number of scholarships they offered, officially.

Ball State changed upward in 1971 and they were independent until they joined the MAC in 1975. Valpo's move up is similar to Evansville -- 1976.

As for it happening today, I don't know that there's a rule against it but a D-1 conference would have no reason to have a D-2 team in its midst since those games would have no value in their schedule. The D-2 team would love it -- if they could win. But there's no way they would.

As it was, Butler didn't gain much by being in the ICC in those days, but I think it was an era where getting an NIT bid was worth more to them. That certainly played out well for Southern in their upset in that tournament in 1967. Butler was making money off of basketball anyhow, renting out its 'gym' to the IHSAA. They did make the 1962 NCAA tournament, winning 2 and losing 1 (a third place regional game over W. Kentucky after losing to UK.) NIT in 1959, 1-1 in that tournament. Usually, they were pretty much a .500 operation. This link from 1959 more or less explains Butler's motivation for playing the top teams. Look at where the games were played.

www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/butler/1959-schedule.html

Last Edit: Dec 31, 2021 21:10:53 GMT -6 by Deleted