|
|
Post by wildbill on Apr 2, 2020 15:36:02 GMT -6
I know, as y'all do, that hindsight is 20/20. But, considering how the McCarty party crashed, ending up with Lickliter as our coach, would you have just preferred that Simmons was still our coach?
This is just a little experiment, a little what if. I was in agreement with the termination of Marty. But, if I had a time machine, I wish we'd have just let him finish out his contract.
No drama, negativity, just looking for your thoughts/opinions.
Please everyone, be safe!
|
|
|
|
Post by Tom Servo on Apr 2, 2020 16:12:59 GMT -6
If we were to really look back at it - I think there are two things that did in Marty. Through 2013, if you asked most people, they would have probably said he did a fairly good job. The conference was much stronger during that time period than what it would eventually be and his teams with Colt Ryan did compete. But there two things did him in, in my opinion:
1. The inability to recruit after 2016. We harped and harped on here how important it was for him to land really good recruits after the success of 2015 and 2016. However, it didn't happen. He struggled to fill scholarships with very mediocre players - in some cases not even filling them at all. I do think part of the problem was replacing young hungry assistants like Alexander, Carson Harris, and Jimmy Elgas with old re-treads like Novsek and Forrester. I think that really hurt more than people realize. Not one impact player was signed after those coaches left. Dru and Ryan Taylor were recruited by the original assistants and were signed before the 2016 season began. Not to mention the fact he interviewed at what should be a much lesser program. Once I saw that - it really showed there was a problem.
2. I hate to get into it but the handling of Blake Simmons was a problem. He was an okay player but for him to come in and start 4 years was insane. That's really all that needs to be said. By the time he was a senior he was a pretty good player. But for him to start every game as a freshman and sophomore was not a good thing and it was heavily talked about (in a very negative way) but pretty much anyone who I talked UE basketball with.
If those two things had not happened. The handling of Blake and the recruiting after 2016 - I would have been in favor of keeping him. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 16:24:27 GMT -6
I thought the Simmons era was reasonably dull with some head-scratcher opponents. As far as recruiting, if anything that is a big negative, that's it. I will be fair and say that a lot of mid-major programs have had some peaks and valleys in the last 10 years. Recruiting for the middies is a suck mission. Most teams in the Valley are going to suffer from bad recruiting here and there, but it can't be a trend. You have to find a pearl in the oysters here and there.
But if Marty was canned for lack of success, it doesn't seem like anybody at UE has much of a grasp on the concept.
|
|
|
|
Post by mybigpurplebrain on Apr 2, 2020 16:38:40 GMT -6
I would take Lick over Simmons any and every day.
I we were able to look back at the old discussions from the purple code you would see I was a Simmons defender most of the time. That is until the last two seasons .
I was also a Blake defender . He was not the best athlete but he did give it his all , all of the time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tom Servo on Apr 2, 2020 16:48:32 GMT -6
Up until 2016 he was a much better recruiter than he gets credit for. If you took quality rotation player on one of his pre-16-17 teams, someone like Denver Holmes or Ned Cox and stuck them on any team from 16-17 on they would have been one of the best players on the team. Even someone like Troy Taylor was head and shoulders better than any guard we've had recently. He rebounded, worked his butt off on defense, and he could at least dribble the ball. That's more than I can say for some that have come since then. Like I said above though it went to pot after 2016. He wasn't the same and the good assistants who did the recruiting were gone.
|
|
|
|
Post by evilleways on Apr 2, 2020 18:16:09 GMT -6
We would have had 2500 fans per game with Marty. No thank you
|
|
|
|
Post by klinky on Apr 2, 2020 19:13:08 GMT -6
Marty didn't get many of the high profile players coming out of high school but he was able to identify talent that could be developed into really good players. For one example - Jomaru Brown. He committed to the Aces during his senior year of HS and then decided to instead sign with Eastern KY after Marty left. Today Jomaru declared for the NBA draft following an excellent sophomore season averaging 18.4 ppg. www.wkyt.com/content/sports/Jomaru-Brown-declares-as-early-entrant-in-NBA-Draft-569334571.htmlSTATS 2019-20 2018-19 GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 32 29.5 38.6 31.5 75.1 3.9 2.7 0.2 1.9 2.6 4.7 18.4 31 24.8 43.9 33.0 67.6 3.0 2.2 0.1 1.9 3.1 2.7 14.4 Can you imagine how good of a backcourt we'd have had last year with a combination of Jomaru Brown and Dru Smith? |
|
|
|
Post by E-Villan on Apr 2, 2020 20:30:41 GMT -6
Tom Servo and the others lay out very good and sound reasoning why the Marty era needed to end. I really have nothing else to add that hasn't been posted numerous times already.
With that said, the biggest reason I am glad we moved on regardless is that it proved to whoever it needed proven to that the community and fans were still invested in the program. We didn't know that in the final days of the Marty era. What is done with it moving forward is still to be determined, but the key to our history...small school with huge fanbase is still intact.
|
|
|
|
Post by municup14 on Apr 2, 2020 21:07:05 GMT -6
I don't think Jomaru would have had those stats under Marty this early in his career
|
|
|
|
Post by mybigpurplebrain on Apr 2, 2020 21:25:15 GMT -6
I don't think Jomaru would have had those stats under Marty this early in his career Nooooooo . I would not have been his turn yet. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 8:33:54 GMT -6
First off, I would have hired Lickliter over McCarty when the Ace's coaching job first became open.
Now the subject of Marty. The formula for me is quite easy. 11 seasons as head coach and not one NCAA or NIT bid. None. Only three other coaches in Division 1 could match his ineptitude at the time of his dismissal. Had it not been for his popularity as a former Ace's player, he would have been fired much earlier. What finally was the last straw for me was his total mishandling of his best teams with Mock and Ballentine. The ridiculous use of his players and inability to make effective changes during the course of a game were more apparent than ever. By then, I knew we had already seen the best of Marty, and nothing was going to change. The depths of Marty's dismisal tenure towards the end would so bottom out he could not give away a scholarship, let alone sign an impact player. At this stage,even a die-hard fan as myself became so "small minded" about the Aces that I was beginning to forget the roots of Evansville's once proud program. I was thinking perhaps Ace's fans would have to settle for mediocrity...then I woke up and said NO! Ace's fans said as much too, by the worst attendance figures in Aces' history. This is to say nothing about the "butt-ugly" offense Aces's fans had to endure for many years, as well as the same comments from Simmons "we just have to work harder and get better". None of that happened. Fact is, Marty was over his head from the very begining. His populariy got him the job...and by the time he left, he did so in a disgraceful manner, not even acknowledging the fans who supported him through some of the most dismal times in Aces' basketball history.
No....I do not wish Marty would have stayed. The McCarty train wreck was a freak event that came at a bad time.
|
|
|
|
Post by E-Villan on Apr 3, 2020 11:20:29 GMT -6
Only three other coaches in Division 1 could match his ineptitude at the time of his dismissal. Had it not been for his popularity as a former Ace's player, he would have been fired much earlier. I used to think the beloved, former player bit bought him a few extra years, along with Kazee tying Spencer's hands.....but how do you explain the horrific results Ruffing has delivered translating into an extension? Kazee is gone, and 99.9% of the community has no idea who Ruffing is. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 14:09:36 GMT -6
Only three other coaches in Division 1 could match his ineptitude at the time of his dismissal. Had it not been for his popularity as a former Ace's player, he would have been fired much earlier. I used to think the beloved, former player bit bought him a few extra years, along with Kazee tying Spencer's hands.....but how do you explain the horrific results Ruffing has delivered translating into an extension? Kazee is gone, and 99.9% of the community has no idea who Ruffing is. I think most of the people who post here could make 40 phone calls to high schools within 2 hours of Evansville and find 10 high school girls who could come to UE, get a scholarship, a good education -- and win more than 3 games. We wouldn't even need to coach them. Just give them a manual on free-range offense and a 1-3-1 zone. There is simply zero excuse for the women's team to be this bad every year. If this coach hasn't figured that out, he ought to resign, not apply for a job extension. |
|
|
|
Post by municup14 on Apr 3, 2020 18:09:42 GMT -6
I believe Marty playing Blake over Mislav did Mar8ry in.
|
|
|
|
Post by purplestrong on Apr 3, 2020 18:13:55 GMT -6
I believe Marty playing Blake over Mislav did Mar8ry in. That’s when he totally lost support of all the fans I know. |
|
