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Post by sect3purple on Mar 9, 2020 14:44:12 GMT -6
I have a technical question. Are teams ever voted OUT of a conference? Is there actually a rule for that possibility in the conference handbook?
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Post by aceschamps6571 on Mar 9, 2020 14:47:30 GMT -6
The wrong move in 1995 was when Aces joined MVC. If you were around at that time, the concensus was we were leaping beyond our abilities to compete on the hardwood. That has proven true over the last 25 years. We will never, repeat NEVER be a contender On the hardwood floor. So accept that as fact. We are too small an UNIV, no student support, a town that does not attract talent, a 25 year record that does not entice orn inspire the better athletes, a school that cannot afford to pay for a tp coach, etcetcetc. A drop to a lower level conference for the consistent cellar dwellers would bode well. Winning teams attract WINNERS, that we are not This has to be the most idiotic post ever posted on here. I know we are supposed to be respectful, but it's impossible when you read something this moronic and completely wrong. There was a worse post in the "Fire Spencer" thread. It stated the MVC commissioner and our own AD worked behind the scenes to keep us out of the 2016 NCAA tournament.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:12:59 GMT -6
I have a technical question. Are teams ever voted OUT of a conference? Is there actually a rule for that possibility in the conference handbook? I have no recall of a division one school being voted out. I do believe Kentucky Wesleyan was voted out by the GLVC(division 2) -this was done for a dreadful lack of competitiveness in all of it's sports programs (other than men's basketball). This was over a long period of time.
It
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:24:25 GMT -6
I have a technical question. Are teams ever voted OUT of a conference? Is there actually a rule for that possibility in the conference handbook? I have no recall of a division one school being voted out. I do believe Kentucky Wesleyan was voted out by the GLVC(division 2) -this was done for a dreadful lack of competitiveness in all of it's sports programs (other than men's basketball). This was over a long period of time.
It
One assumes that every conference has a code of ethics for compliance to rules. Still, most of that is a matter of punishment by the NCAA, which would affect a conference member if it were forced to return money or be ineligible to receive it. That program would have to be pretty lowdown for several seasons. Just being bad at basketball wouldn't be enough to get you booted. Having a dozen convicted rapists on the team might cause some angst, especially if the university didn't deal with it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 15:38:28 GMT -6
While I fully understand the frustration and agony of the past two decades of futility for Evansville basketball, for me, it simply adds insult to injury that some have become so small minded. I have no need to repeat all of reasons why this futility has existed so long - E'Villan has accurately pointed this out many times. Some need to get a grip. We are fortunate to play in what historically has been a top 10 conference in the nation. The level of play is outstanding. I am not going to jump ship because of past administrations who did not give a rip about the Evansville basketball legacy, and the poor choices that came from it. Aces are better than this. The fans deserve better than this. The program is now backed by a president with a sports background, and major donors have stepped up. We can compete with any team in our conference. The resources are there. Now is not the time to bemoan the past. That is over. We just went through hell and back this past year. I get that. But now let's look ahead and see the possibilities that are there. I can't wait to see what moves are about to be made for next season. Feel free to disagree, but I moving forward with this.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 16:18:17 GMT -6
UE would be categorically stupid to leave the Valley for the Horizon or the Summit. Period. The OVC would be a lateral move and would not be conducive to recruiting any more than the current situation. Yeah, you could pine to move into the MAC, which has football programs that sometimes compete well against the Big 10 and are integral to the sports budgets their programs derive. Evansville has intramural football. The MAC is not going to invite a program into its conference anyhow. They just aren't, and a non-football school -- get real, Lucille.
The Valley is not UE's problem. UE's problem is not having good players and recruiters. Those are easier to find than pulling up stakes and moving into a conference that doesn't make the program better. If you think the Summit is a destination, it's ... yeah, in South Dakota, where the REAL television revenue is located. But Purdue-FW, yeah there's an in-state rival we can develop.
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Post by sect3purple on Mar 9, 2020 16:20:35 GMT -6
Thanks for the info.
I hope we come back strong, healthy, and skilled....and climb right back in to the thick of things in the MVC...sure wouldn't want to take a step back by changing conferences, just my opinion. And I hope Bradley represents us well in the tournament, maybe UNI also ( but not sure if that bubble is going to hold up).
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Post by 83Ace on Mar 9, 2020 16:56:00 GMT -6
I have a technical question. Are teams ever voted OUT of a conference? Is there actually a rule for that possibility in the conference handbook?
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Post by purplestrong on Mar 9, 2020 17:35:05 GMT -6
Well I started this post with the intent of generating discussion, which it certainly has. Perhaps the weakness of my post was suggesting a move to the Ohio Valley conference instead of just entertaining general discussion on whether or not we should change leagues. I am not advocating that, I was just interested in feedback from greater minds than my own on the subject. I want the best for the team and Evansville fans. I want to win. I want to go dancing. Most people gave me cognizant and rational reasons why we should not consider a move. I agree with their reasoning. Some people just rudely dismissed the discussion out of hand without offering any substantive advice on how we change the program in ways that would result in team that would be widely competitive on a regular basis. It is one thing to say that is just a stupid discussion,But having that attitude without recognizing the need for change or proposing a specific avenue for becoming a winning program is not helpful.
I am a UE Grad, season ticket holder and will be again next year. I know good basketball when I see it. I also recognize stagnant offense, lazy cutting, poor defense, poor fundamentals,and a crappy point guard when I see it. I hated McCartys offense from day one. I will admit being old-school in that I think a well run motion offense is a thing of beauty. I have seen offensive improvement under Coach L. We are seeing more promising recruits. I want to win. I am willing to see what he can do next year. Part of my frustration was with starting the season with such very high hopes and ending the season amid a cluster of a train wreck.
But for those who think this was a stupid discussion to begin with, please enlighten all of us with exactly the changes that you would make to make this a winning program once again. Unless of course you think the status quo is just peachy.
Go Aces
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 17:51:00 GMT -6
Well I started this post with the intent of generating discussion, which it certainly has. Perhaps the weakness of my post was suggesting a move to the Ohio Valley conference instead of just entertaining general discussion on whether or not we should change leagues. I think a better question should be directed at the UE people -- and we've discussed this -- as to if/when/how they intend to at least endeavor to compete against the programs that make up more than half their schedules.
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Post by ncace on Mar 9, 2020 19:47:04 GMT -6
Correct. There is NO EXCUSE for having multiple athletic programs that fail to compete.Yes, the athletic director’s job is more than wins and losses, BUT the other expectations; compliance and financial solvency, are not even seen by the outside world, AND SHOULDN’T BE SEEN, unless there are screwups. Otherwise, the teams and the university will be viewed through the athletic department’s performance on the field.
If teams are successful, the finances take care of themselves. I have no idea where Spencer sits with Prez P. If he’s not on the hot seat yet, he should be prepared to provide a game plan as to how he’s going to turn the fortunes of UE ATHLETICS to positive results, starting NOW, and into the short and long term future. Stay the course is not an option, and if we don’t see a complete change in direction, then Spencer isn’t being held to task.
Some might say that athletics are not important in the overall scheme of the university. Tell that to Wofford, Furman, Belmont. Tell it to Butler. If an unsupervised WMc hadn’t created such a mess, the UK win, followed by a .500 season could have meant an additional 200-300 additional freshmen to UE next year, not to mention hundreds of thousands of $$s in free PR.
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Post by ibleedpurple on Mar 9, 2020 20:30:01 GMT -6
Great discussion. IMHO we are in the right conference and have been for years. The bigger issue is the last 20+ of those years we had the wrong people managing the business. Starting with some comments by former President Jennings about going DIII, then we had a number of weak Presidents who hired weak ADs..ADs with no experience, former bankers, we even had an interim AD if my mind is correct for much of one year after one of the great hires quit or was canned (I don't remember), many ADs with a bigger ego than their IQ including the current one. Those ADs hired the wonderful crew of coaches who in many cases including both basketball programs and the current baseball program (if this new field does not help recruiting not sure what will, take a look) were and have been allowed to stick around far too long and this was allowed by these ADs and Presidents collectively. The longer these coaches hung around, the more people lost interest, the less relevant Evansville has become in the eyes of potential recruits. Adults of drinking age don't even remember the last time Evansville was relevant in a sport for more than a blip here and there.
IMHO it is the people in place, not the conference we are in. We have the resources, we have the quality education. When we were successful at the D1 level we had two coaches who at the time were younger, were hungry, could recruit and we had an AD with experience. Things fell into place from 82 to 99. Had we not had the plane crash I feel we would have had success prior to these two decades. I played four years in the MCC and graduated from UE.
One note..TL should be given a chance because unlike many coaches who have NEVER done anything, he has. It is better to be a "has been" than a "never was" and we have had too many "never was" ADs and coaches in the fold over the last 20 years. In any business, if you are given all the tools, the training, the opportunity and you do not produce, you need to be replaced.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 7:29:43 GMT -6
UE would be categorically stupid to leave the Valley for the Horizon or the Summit. Period. The OVC would be a lateral move and would not be conducive to recruiting any more than the current situation. Yeah, you could pine to move into the MAC, which has football programs that sometimes compete well against the Big 10 and are integral to the sports budgets their programs derive. Evansville has intramural football. The MAC is not going to invite a program into its conference anyhow. They just aren't, and a non-football school -- get real, Lucille. The Valley is not UE's problem. UE's problem is not having good players and recruiters. Those are easier to find than pulling up stakes and moving into a conference that doesn't make the program better. If you think the Summit is a destination, it's ... yeah, in South Dakota, where the REAL television revenue is located. But Purdue-FW, yeah there's an in-state rival we can develop. How can you possibly call Evansville moving to the OVC as a lateral move? The MVC historically has usually finished in the top ten among all college basketball conferences. This year was no different than when they finished tied for 10th with the Mountain West. The OVC, finished 29th...which is just about where they finish most years. Does that sound like a lateral move to you??? Wow...
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Post by Tom Servo on Mar 10, 2020 8:06:49 GMT -6
I think the number one thing we need to do is go back to square one with who we are recruiting. We need to a take a long look at what is making these other teams successful. One team we really need to look at is Belmont. Super skilled at playing fundamental basketball, shooting, getting back on defense, not turning it over, and handling the ball well. All of those things we are terrible at. If you look at the successful UE teams they did all the little things and they always were good at the things I listed.
The fact of the matter is we must be good at those types of things. We aren't going to get the top 100 level players here, and if we get someone with that level of talent there is going to be major baggage that is going to come with it. We need to be smart with who we recruit. Guys like Colt Ryan and DJ were perfect recruits for here. They were almost good enough to play at better schools but Colt's speed and DJ's height are how they ended up here. Perfect fits for here cause those shortcomings can be hidden.
The recruiting of players who cannot shoot, cannot handle the ball, and aren't good at the fundamentals needs to come to an end immediately.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 8:10:07 GMT -6
UE would be categorically stupid to leave the Valley for the Horizon or the Summit. Period. The OVC would be a lateral move and would not be conducive to recruiting any more than the current situation. Yeah, you could pine to move into the MAC, which has football programs that sometimes compete well against the Big 10 and are integral to the sports budgets their programs derive. Evansville has intramural football. The MAC is not going to invite a program into its conference anyhow. They just aren't, and a non-football school -- get real, Lucille. The Valley is not UE's problem. UE's problem is not having good players and recruiters. Those are easier to find than pulling up stakes and moving into a conference that doesn't make the program better. If you think the Summit is a destination, it's ... yeah, in South Dakota, where the REAL television revenue is located. But Purdue-FW, yeah there's an in-state rival we can develop. How can you possibly call Evansville moving to the OVC as a lateral move? The MVC historically has usually finished in the top ten among all college basketball conferences. This year was no different than when they finished tied for 10th with the Mountain West. The OVC, finished 29th...which is just about where they finish most years. Does that sound like a lateral move to you??? Wow... Ease up on the pendantry. It doesn't enhance the conversation.
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