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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2020 11:22:09 GMT -6
I do agree that recruiting is going to take a back seat to stability now and the assistants will need to be the front men in adding depth/talent to the roster. Honestly, the players they have had commitments (in any form) from are the guys they need to keep, so there's that. Adding a couple of grad transfers next year might turn the program into a .500 show. After that, it's too far out for us to see anyway and getting lost in the 2023 version of UE basketball is a fool's errand. There are 5,000 high school sophomores out there who are still growing. Juco guys, foreign players, transfers.
I would not see Lickliter as the guy who can fuel that kind of churn, so hiring him is clearly not a long-term solution to a problem we can't begin to identify. Seeing as how 18 months ago, we were clear the program was heading toward Butler stratosphere, we're outside the perimeter in evaluating this decision.
I just know what I saw since the end of the year -- and as much as they are college players and deserve that slack -- this was a truly pitiful performance. I do concede that DeAndre would have made it 'closer.'
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Post by Aces1131 on Jan 22, 2020 11:25:03 GMT -6
Given the circumstance I can't be mad at this at all. It was kinda odd to fire Walter then get Lick in right after, but this obviously had to be in the works. I think there definitely had to be a players consultant in hiring Lick, but if it gives us DeAndre for next year there's no complaints from me.
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Post by evilleways on Jan 22, 2020 12:33:35 GMT -6
This was a decision made to try to salvage the current season. (Honestly, it was probably more like Mark Spencer and President P were tired of everyone asking about the coaching situation anytime they went to the grocery store.) They had their eye on 2-5 weeks in the future, rather than 2-5 years. It was a safe hire made out of fear, not out of opportunity.
I have no quarrel with Coach Lick. He's a man of high character. I don't think he's the right man for the job, but I hope he proves me wrong. I have a major quarrel with the Powers That Be at UE and how this decision came about. Hiring a full-time replacement in January because "everybody already knows this guy" is something that high schools do, not big-time college programs.
As regards keeping the current players happy, you're damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't. The players should not be dictating to the AD. We saw that happen at IU after Knight was fired; the players wanted Mike Davis; they went with Mike Davis, and the program slowly radiated its brand away. But to play devil's advocate, a decade later after Sampson was fired from IU, they did the opposite thing by hiring Dakich rather than the guy the players wanted. They didn't retain Dakich full-time, the remaining players either quit or were kicked off the team, and they were stuck with a down-to-the-foundation rebuild.
What I wish we'd done is what WISCONSIN did (the same season that Knight-to-Davis happened at IU, funnily enough.) Dick Bennett quit midseason; the interim guy finished out the year; he wasn't retained. Then the AD went out and hired Bo Ryan, who had local ties and played a similar style, and he ended up becoming the best coach in school history.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2020 12:54:44 GMT -6
This was a decision made to try to salvage the current season. (Honestly, it was probably more like Mark Spencer and President P were tired of everyone asking about the coaching situation anytime they went to the grocery store.) They had their eye on 2-5 weeks in the future, rather than 2-5 years. It was a safe hire made out of fear, not out of opportunity. I have no quarrel with Coach Lick. He's a man of high character. I don't think he's the right man for the job, but I hope he proves me wrong. I have a major quarrel with the Powers That Be at UE and how this decision came about. Hiring a full-time replacement in January because "everybody already knows this guy" is something that high schools do, not big-time college programs. As regards keeping the current players happy, you're damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't. The players should not be dictating to the AD. We saw that happen at IU after Knight was fired; the players wanted Mike Davis; they went with Mike Davis, and the program slowly radiated its brand away. But to play devil's advocate, a decade later after Sampson was fired from IU, they did the opposite thing by hiring Dakich rather than the guy the players wanted. They didn't retain Dakich full-time, the remaining players either quit or were kicked off the team, and they were stuck with a down-to-the-foundation rebuild. What I wish we'd done is what WISCONSIN did (the same season that Knight-to-Davis happened at IU, funnily enough.) Dick Bennett quit midseason; the interim guy finished out the year; he wasn't retained. Then the AD went out and hired Bo Ryan, who had local ties and played a similar style, and he ended up becoming the best coach in school history. UE had 2 choices for hiring somebody in January -- somebody who wasn't already employed or keeping the guy they have. There is no alternative. It's not a matter of settling when you decide to keep the coach who's 0-6 or break the NCAA rule and tamper with a coach who's under contract with somebody else. The 2-to-5 anything is under discussion. They can't hire a coach in midseason who is already on somebody's staff. They aren't allowed to even call that guy for his opinion on it.
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Post by ytele on Jan 22, 2020 13:01:38 GMT -6
This was a decision made to try to salvage the current season. (Honestly, it was probably more like Mark Spencer and President P were tired of everyone asking about the coaching situation anytime they went to the grocery store.) They had their eye on 2-5 weeks in the future, rather than 2-5 years. It was a safe hire made out of fear, not out of opportunity. I have no quarrel with Coach Lick. He's a man of high character. I don't think he's the right man for the job, but I hope he proves me wrong. I have a major quarrel with the Powers That Be at UE and how this decision came about. Hiring a full-time replacement in January because "everybody already knows this guy" is something that high schools do, not big-time college programs. As regards keeping the current players happy, you're damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't. The players should not be dictating to the AD. We saw that happen at IU after Knight was fired; the players wanted Mike Davis; they went with Mike Davis, and the program slowly radiated its brand away. But to play devil's advocate, a decade later after Sampson was fired from IU, they did the opposite thing by hiring Dakich rather than the guy the players wanted. They didn't retain Dakich full-time, the remaining players either quit or were kicked off the team, and they were stuck with a down-to-the-foundation rebuild. What I wish we'd done is what WISCONSIN did (the same season that Knight-to-Davis happened at IU, funnily enough.) Dick Bennett quit midseason; the interim guy finished out the year; he wasn't retained. Then the AD went out and hired Bo Ryan, who had local ties and played a similar style, and he ended up becoming the best coach in school history. UE had 2 choices for hiring somebody in January -- somebody who wasn't already employed or keeping the guy they have. There is no alternative. It's not a matter of settling when you decide to keep the coach who's 0-6 or break the NCAA rule and tamper with a coach who's under contract with somebody else. The 2-to-5 anything is under discussion. They can't hire a coach in midseason who is already on somebody's staff. They aren't allowed to even call that guy for his opinion on it. Todd would have been there in May. This hire made it so that it's impossible to even make a call to a guy and try to make a better hire
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Post by acesfansince1990 on Jan 22, 2020 13:02:40 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2020 13:07:45 GMT -6
UE had 2 choices for hiring somebody in January -- somebody who wasn't already employed or keeping the guy they have. There is no alternative. It's not a matter of settling when you decide to keep the coach who's 0-6 or break the NCAA rule and tamper with a coach who's under contract with somebody else. The 2-to-5 anything is under discussion. They can't hire a coach in midseason who is already on somebody's staff. They aren't allowed to even call that guy for his opinion on it. Todd would have been there in May. This hire made it so that it's impossible to even make a call to a guy and try to make a better hire That might be a different conversation-- about who should have been hired and when. The current situation is that firing the coach in mid-season was necessary. The replacements were either Seltzer or somebody else. Somebody else can't be on a current coaching staff. I still don't know if anyone can identify a 'better hire' in this situation. This team is not going to win 15 games.
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Purp
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Post by Purp on Jan 22, 2020 13:12:38 GMT -6
This was a decision made to try to salvage the current season. (Honestly, it was probably more like Mark Spencer and President P were tired of everyone asking about the coaching situation anytime they went to the grocery store.) They had their eye on 2-5 weeks in the future, rather than 2-5 years. It was a safe hire made out of fear, not out of opportunity. I have no quarrel with Coach Lick. He's a man of high character. I don't think he's the right man for the job, but I hope he proves me wrong. I have a major quarrel with the Powers That Be at UE and how this decision came about. Hiring a full-time replacement in January because "everybody already knows this guy" is something that high schools do, not big-time college programs. As regards keeping the current players happy, you're damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't. The players should not be dictating to the AD. We saw that happen at IU after Knight was fired; the players wanted Mike Davis; they went with Mike Davis, and the program slowly radiated its brand away. But to play devil's advocate, a decade later after Sampson was fired from IU, they did the opposite thing by hiring Dakich rather than the guy the players wanted. They didn't retain Dakich full-time, the remaining players either quit or were kicked off the team, and they were stuck with a down-to-the-foundation rebuild. What I wish we'd done is what WISCONSIN did (the same season that Knight-to-Davis happened at IU, funnily enough.) Dick Bennett quit midseason; the interim guy finished out the year; he wasn't retained. Then the AD went out and hired Bo Ryan, who had local ties and played a similar style, and he ended up becoming the best coach in school history. Just as easily, we could have left Seltzer as the interim, lost the core of the team at season's end, hired a "young and hungry" who never quite pans out, and are left rebuilding after another 3-4 years. In short, nobody knows what the hell is going to happen. Most people, it seems from all the posts and comments I've seen and heard, are happy with Lickliter. Happy to be done with the McCarty trainwreck and happy to hand the program over to a good, experienced, respected head coach who has a chance to keep the gains Walter brought while also holding the program together.
I'm a lot more optimistic about the Aces basketball on 1/22/2020 than I was on 1/20/2020.
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Post by evilleways on Jan 22, 2020 13:13:22 GMT -6
UE had 2 choices for hiring somebody in January -- somebody who wasn't already employed or keeping the guy they have. There is no alternative. It's not a matter of settling when you decide to keep the coach who's 0-6 or break the NCAA rule and tamper with a coach who's under contract with somebody else. The 2-to-5 anything is under discussion. They can't hire a coach in midseason who is already on somebody's staff. They aren't allowed to even call that guy for his opinion on it. Todd would have been there in May. This hire made it so that it's impossible to even make a call to a guy and try to make a better hire Amen. This guy gets it. The only reason not to wait until spring is because they want to try to salvage the current season. Which, fair enough, but not if it means sacrificing the ability to get the right guy for the long haul. We could have had the Coach of the Future in two months; now we have to wait two years.
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Purp
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Post by Purp on Jan 22, 2020 13:16:12 GMT -6
Todd would have been there in May. This hire made it so that it's impossible to even make a call to a guy and try to make a better hire Amen. This guy gets it. The only reason not to wait until spring is because they want to try to salvage the current season. Which, fair enough, but not if it means sacrificing the ability to get the right guy for the long haul. We could have had the Coach of the Future in two months; now we have to wait two years. Waiting could have had a big impact on next year's roster, too. Not to say Lickliter is a lock to keep players, but I think the chances are better now than they would be if there was a big question mark at the end of a horrible season.
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Post by Tom Servo on Jan 22, 2020 13:21:08 GMT -6
Todd would have been there in May. This hire made it so that it's impossible to even make a call to a guy and try to make a better hire Amen. This guy gets it. The only reason not to wait until spring is because they want to try to salvage the current season. Which, fair enough, but not if it means sacrificing the ability to get the right guy for the long haul. We could have had the Coach of the Future in two months; now we have to wait two years. I understand your point - however, my counterpoint would be this. What if they already feel they have someone on the bench that can learn from Lick for a couple years and then take over because they aren't quite ready for the job yet. I said this on another thread, but I have heard very good things about Logan B. and perhaps he is the young/hungry guy that can take over after learning the ropes for a couple years? I don't know if that's what they plan to do or not, but it does make sense.
The other point is retaining Williams - losing him would be a major setback. We still may lose him but I think this is about the best thing we could have done to try and keep him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2020 13:32:28 GMT -6
The hiring of Coach Todd L. is a superb decision...it's not even disputable in my humble opinion. In case some have not noticed, this season is completely spiraling with players who are out of control and without any sense of discipline. That isn't their fault, not entirely anyway. Coach Todd is a known commodity and has a proven track record. People know who is and is respected through out the industry. He is not going to be a high maintenance guy who has never led college athletes before. You are not going to find many risk factors with him that you might with others. Coach Todd at bare minimums going to bring some stability, integrity, and a respectable product into what has been appearing as a venomous situation. He can coach and he can recruit...the track record is there...and he will hold himself, his staff, and the team accountable. The city is going to enjoy his manner and I think we are going to get the results we as fans have been waiting for. I am thankful that someone of his character is willing to take over during this difficult time. The program also has a much better chance of retaining their verbally committed recruits and retaining their present players. His age is of no concern to me...at all. In fact, at this present time it will serve him a hell of a lot more than hinder him. At the right time if the program starts heading the right direction, which I fully believe it will, he can then perhaps hand off to one of his assistants, like TC. The continuity stays and the program continues to rise. . To define the decision to hire coach TL as being fear based is ludicrous. And for those who were hoping for a young hungry coach, I get that...but the choice for TL at this time makes a whole lot more sense. As a close fan of this program for over 50 years I can tell you I am more at peace with this choice than many others that have been made. Feel free to disagree...that is what this forum is all about. But I am feeling a whole lot better than I have been in quite some time
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Post by stennisrm72 on Jan 22, 2020 13:34:28 GMT -6
The concern over a multi year contract are certainly valid. I never thought that he'd be remotely interested in being the/a head coach again. My biggest concern is whether the competitive "fire" is still burning. I'm a year older than him and know mine wasn't quite as bright so I retired. Would he do that in a year and a half after restoring some semblance of stability to the program? Hand over the reigns to Matthew Graves, TC, Logan, or some other "young and hungry" coach?
His recruiting ability has been questioned. It's not the head coach that does the "grunt" work on this. TC and Logan are the sales reps. That's where the relationship is built. The head coach is the "closer." His resume is good. He now has the NBA ties. There is good to hiring TL. The coaster has just left the station again.
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Post by acecard on Jan 22, 2020 13:41:51 GMT -6
There is no doubt that Lickliter knows how to play the game. Now that he is in charge of the program, maybe we will start to play the game the way it was meant be played. Maybe we will start to put more emphasis on defense, and run an offense that fits the players that we have rather than trying to run an offense that we have to jam down players throats. Maybe he will realize that if you don't really have players that can make three point shots on a consistent basis, we will quit taking 20-25 a game. Maybe we will quit running a pro type offense if you don't have the kind of players to play it. Todd is a class guy who knows how to coach. Under the present circumstances, he is probably the right guy for the job.
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Post by acepurple84 on Jan 22, 2020 13:44:03 GMT -6
The hiring of Coach Todd L. is a superb decision...it's not even disputable in my humble opinion. In case some have not noticed, this season is completely spiraling with players who are out of control and without any sense of discipline. That isn't their fault, not entirely anyway. Coach Todd is a known commodity and has a proven track record. People know who is and is respected through out the industry. He is not going to be a high maintenance guy who has never led college athletes before. You are not going to find many risk factors with him that you might with others. Coach Todd at bare minimums going to bring some stability, integrity, and a respectable product into what has been appearing as a venomous situation. He can coach and he can recruit...the track record is there...and he will hold himself, his staff, and the team accountable. The city is going to enjoy his manner and I think we are going to get the results we as fans have been waiting for. I am thankful that someone of his character is willing to take over during this difficult time. The program also has a much better chance of retaining their verbally committed recruits and retaining their present players. His age is of no concern to me...at all. In fact, at this present time it will serve him a hell of a lot more than hinder him. At the right time if the program starts heading the right direction, which I fully believe it will, he can then perhaps hand off to one of his assistants, like TC. The continuity stays and the program continues to rise. . To define the decision to hire coach TC as being fear based is ludicrous. And for those who were hoping for a young hungry coach, I get that...but the choice for TL at this time makes a whole lot more sense. As a close fan of this program for over 50 years I can tell you I am more at peace with this choice than many others that have been made. Feel free to disagree...that is what this forum is all about. But I am feeling a whole lot better than I have been in quite some time . I totally agree with what you are saying. Assistants have more connection with the players than the HC. He brings in the continuity with the players. If what they said is true about eh yelling at the coaches and each other is true, maybe he can bring discipline into the ranks.
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